Maptalk-Digest Tuesday, December 30 1997 Volume 97 : Number 561
Atlanta Constitution on Abernathy
From: (David Hadorn)
fwd: Your Saturday Talk response
From:
LTE SENT Sun Sentinel: The War On Drugs Can Be Won-- in a pigs eye!
From: Mark Greer <>
Re: Re: Can Be Won-- in a pigs
From: Mark Greer <>
Sun Sentinel gets nailed.
From: Mark Greer <>
Re: FOCUS Alert #50 Sun Sentinel
From: Mark Greer <>
sent to Sun Sentinel
From: Mark Greer <>
Re: Atlanta Constitution on Abernathy
From: Bil Morrison <>
AMR vs I-57 calming down (at least on this list)
From: Mark Greer <>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Atlanta Constitution on Abernathy
From: (David Hadorn)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:26:54 +1300 (NZDT)
I just received some e-mail from an editor at the AC indicating interest in
publishing my contribution to their website discussion on the Abernathy case
this Saturday. Apparently they will have a section devoted to these
letters. Is Ashley Clements still out there and active on this list? Or
are there other newshawks in Atlanta?
The website is still open and apparently Wednesday morning is the deadline
for submitting something for possible publication on Saturday. The url is
http://www.accessatlanta.com/cgi-bin/pforum/show?ROOT23&MSG23601&Tmsgc
ent_show
David
------------------------------
Subj: fwd: Your Saturday Talk response
From:
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:38:19 -0600 (CST)
How many others have received this message?
Just another example of the power of the message boards. :)
Alan B.
<---- Begin Included Message ---->
Date: 30 Dec 97 11:48:31 +0000
From: Richard Matthews <>
Subject: Your Saturday Talk response
To: Alan Bryan <>
Subject: Time: 11:52 AM
OFFICE MEMO Your Saturday Talk response Date: 12/30/97
We're considering using excerpts from your response to the Saturday Talk
feature in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution on next Saturday's page. Our
paper's policy on things like "letters to the editor" requires that we have
the writer's real name, address and telephone number for verification
purposes. We won't put all of that in the paper, of course -- just your real
name and city. If you're interested in having your comments published, please
respond to by e-mail to by Wednesday morning.
Richard Matthews
Journal Editorial Board
<---- End Included Message ---->
------------------------------
Subj: LTE SENT Sun Sentinel: The War On Drugs Can Be Won-- in a pigs eye!
From: Mark Greer <>
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:30:31 -0800
>From:
>To:
>Sender:
>Reply-To:
>Subject: MAP: LTE SENT Sun Sentinel: The War On Drugs Can Be Won-- in a pigs
> eye!
>X-Sender:
>Organization: Media Awareness Project http://www.mapinc.org/
>Date: Fri, 26 Dec 97 20:12:10 +0000
>
>James G. Driscoll, Editorial Writer for the South Florida Sun Sentinel, has
>written a series of Reefer Madness articles that would make Harry Anslinger
>beam with pride that his outrageous lies are still fooling people.
>
>Doing target practice on James Driscoll's highly exposed ass will improve
>your debating skills and let the narcomaniacs know that people are on to
>their lunatic propaganda. Driscoll repeats the narco line without
>equivication, so he's wide open to assault from all sides.
>
>Check these addresses for Driscoll's articles.
>
>with a Contact:
>Note: For LTEs we suggest using the form at:
>http://www.sun-sentinel.com/SunServe/letters_editor.htm
>Website: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/drugwar.htm
>
>
>Here's my response to some of Driscoll's intellectual bankruptcy and moral
>degeneration.
>R Givens
>
>
>
>
>Editor:
>The notion that the drug war can be won is the biggest prohibitionist lie.
>We tried alcohol prohibition in the 20s and at the end people were drinking
>more than at the beginning. Never on their best day did the revenuers come
>close to stopping the bootleggers. The same thing applies to drug
>prohibition.
>
>We've been at it for 83 years and drug use is higher than when we began.
>Crusades to rid the country of drugs have been tried many times, but never
>with more ruthless energy than in the last 15 years. Contrary to the
>propaganda Driscoll panders, Clinton has not relaxed the drug war in the
>slightest. Marijuana arrests are higher than at any time in history. Every
>item in the drug prohibition budget has increased every year of Clinton's
>administration.
>
>Drug use among kids began increasing again under the Bush administration,
>so Driscoll is putting his own spin on the facts.
>
>Of course, it's all an exercize in futility because the DEA admits that
>they never interdict more than 10% of the illicit drugs. Short of a state
>of war on the high seas and in the air there's no way to stop more than a
>small fraction of the drugs coming in. Any serious blockage of the drug
>traffic would paralyze world trade.
>
>South Florida is an excellent example of the impotence of drug prohibition.
>When the DEA made life in the Miami area difficult for the drug cartels,
>they simply switched to other smuggling routes.
>
>Drug prohibition is such a failure that heroin and cocaine purity is at an
>all time high and street prices are lower than in 30 years in spite of the
>greatest "zero tolerance" effort in the history of mankind.
>
>If Driscoll advocates jailing 20 million illicit drug users, he should
>first tell us where we'll get the $TEN TRILLION dollars per year to pay for
>their incarceration. We'd also have to build the biggest concentration
>camps in history. The enormous police, prison and court budgets necessary
>to accomplish this would cost another $TEN TRILLION DOLLARS. Added to all
>of this would be huge economic losses from taking so many people out of the
>workforce that the damage is impossible to estimate. The welfare costs for
>drug users children would cost billions more every year.
>
>Any attempt to enforce a true zero tolerance ban on drugs would destroy
>the country long before such a goal is achieved.
>
>The solution to our substance problems is to legalize drugs for adult use
>and regulate them the way we do alcohol. It is good to remember that
>Elliot Ness and his bumbling Feds didn't put the beer barons out of
>business, repeal did!
>Redford Givens
>
>
>
>
Mark Greer
Media Awareness Project (MAP) inc.
d/b/a DrugSense
http://www.DrugSense.org/
http://www.mapinc.org
------------------------------
Subj: Re: Re: Can Be Won-- in a pigs
From: Mark Greer <>
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:41:07 -0800
The Sun Sentinel has a circulation of 300,000. Driscol is not a nationally
important writer but this effort to seek out and nail this kind of
egregious article is really where MAP shines. We got a pile of letters sent
and with this mid sized paper the editorial board is undoubtedly reeling
from the response.
Unfortunately We don't have a NewsHawk to let us know about published LTEs
as far as I know and I don't think LTEs make it to their web page.
At 09:27 PM 12/26/97 +0000, Jim Rosenfield wrote:
>
>
>How many readers does this paper have and what is its repute among
>journalists?
>Does Driscoll ahve a reputation?
>
>At 03:14 PM 12/26/97 EST, you wrote:
>>James G. Driscoll, Editorial Writer for the South Florida Sun Sentinel, has
>>written a series of Reefer Madness articles that would make Harry Anslinger
>>beam with pride that his outrageous lies are still fooling people.
>>
>>Doing target practice on James Driscoll's highly exposed ass will improve
>>your debating skills and let the narcomaniacs know that people are on to
>>their lunatic propaganda. Driscoll repeats the narco line without
>>equivication, so he's wide open to assault from all sides.
>>
>>Check these addresses for Driscoll's articles.
>>
>>with a Contact:
>>Note: For LTEs we suggest using the form at:
>>http://www.sun-sentinel.com/SunServe/letters_editor.htm
>>Website: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/drugwar.htm
>>
>>
>>Here's my response to some of Driscoll's intellectual bankruptcy and moral
>>degeneration.
>>R Givens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Editor:
>>The notion that the drug war can be won is the biggest prohibitionist lie.
>>We tried alcohol prohibition in the 20s and at the end people were drinking
>>more than at the beginning. Never on their best day did the revenuers come
>>close to stopping the bootleggers. The same thing applies to drug
>>prohibition.
>>
>>We've been at it for 83 years and drug use is higher than when we began.
>>Crusades to rid the country of drugs have been tried many times, but never
>>with more ruthless energy than in the last 15 years. Contrary to the
>>propaganda Driscoll panders, Clinton has not relaxed the drug war in the
>>slightest. Marijuana arrests are higher than at any time in history. Every
>>item in the drug prohibition budget has increased every year of Clinton's
>>administration.
>>
>>Drug use among kids began increasing again under the Bush administration,
>>so Driscoll is putting his own spin on the facts.
>>
>>Of course, it's all an exercize in futility because the DEA admits that
>>they never interdict more than 10% of the illicit drugs. Short of a state
>>of war on the high seas and in the air there's no way to stop more than a
>>small fraction of the drugs coming in. Any serious blockage of the drug
>>traffic would paralyze world trade.
>>
>>South Florida is an excellent example of the impotence of drug prohibition.
>>When the DEA made life in the Miami area difficult for the drug cartels,
>>they simply switched to other smuggling routes.
>>
>>Drug prohibition is such a failure that heroin and cocaine purity is at an
>>all time high and street prices are lower than in 30 years in spite of the
>>greatest "zero tolerance" effort in the history of mankind.
>>
>>If Driscoll advocates jailing 20 million illicit drug users, he should
>>first tell us where we'll get the $TEN TRILLION dollars per year to pay for
>>their incarceration. We'd also have to build the biggest concentration
>>camps in history. The enormous police, prison and court budgets necessary
>>to accomplish this would cost another $TEN TRILLION DOLLARS. Added to all
>>of this would be huge economic losses from taking so many people out of the
>>workforce that the damage is impossible to estimate. The welfare costs for
>>drug users children would cost billions more every year.
>>
>>Any attempt to enforce a true zero tolerance ban on drugs would destroy
>>the country long before such a goal is achieved.
>>
>>The solution to our substance problems is to legalize drugs for adult use
>>and regulate them the way we do alcohol. It is good to remember that
>>Elliot Ness and his bumbling Feds didn't put the beer barons out of
>>business, repeal did!
>>Redford Givens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Jim Rosenfield
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>tel: 310-836-0926 fax: 310-836-0592
>http://insightweb.com
>
Mark Greer
Media Awareness Project (MAP) inc.
d/b/a DrugSense
http://www.DrugSense.org/
http://www.mapinc.org
------------------------------
Subj: Sun Sentinel gets nailed.
From: Mark Greer <>
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 09:32:44 -0800
Check out:
http://205.152.190.24/SunSentinel/msgboards/scripts/msgframe.idc?topic
wars
The Sun Sentinel (FL circ 300,000) and James Driscoll got hammered by the
MAP effort. Our letters opposing the series of articles represent 100% of
the replies.
Mark Greer
Media Awareness Project (MAP) inc.
d/b/a DrugSense
http://www.DrugSense.org/
http://www.mapinc.org
------------------------------
Subj: Re: FOCUS Alert #50 Sun Sentinel
From: Mark Greer <>
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 11:27:32 -0800
Actually not. Your LTE is at least published at
http://205.152.190.24/SunSentinel/msgboards/scripts/msgframe.idc?topic
wars
as the first of a pile of letters dumping on Driscoll. We are hoping to
hear something on what actually gets ink as well.
Don't kid yourself about having little effect. We hammered this one. It
will at least be a long time before you see anything like it from the SS
again. I doubt they got one letter of support of the articles. This is how
we win this thing. All we need is about another 5-10,000 committed letter
writers covering every paper, mag and broadcast station like a glove for
about a year and you will be amazed at what we begin to see happen.
At 03:53 AM 12/29/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Mark,
> Here's a copy of what I emailed to the Sun-Sentinal. It's obviously too
>long and too sarcastic to be published but after reading their bullshit, I
>couldn't resist. Probably won't change their biased little minds one bit -
>but I feel better.
> Ciao
> Gene
>
>
> I read with interest the Sun-Sentinal¹s series on drugs. As an addiction
>psychiatrist, I am incredulous that it took your staff six months to
>assemble one of the most biased and distorted ³overviews² of drugs I¹ve ever
>read. The limits on my time make it impossible to challenge most of your
>series, however, I will comment on the goals of your series: ³. . . to make
>the war on drugs more effective and to better protect America¹s children
>from the ravages of illegal narcotics².
> The most recent and potent article on the ³effectiveness² of our war on
>drugs was published in the most respected news weekly in the world
>(³Mexico¹s Drugs Menace: Poison across the Rio Grande², The Economist, pp.
>36-38, Nov. 15, 1997). They point out that anyone familiar with history and
>systems theory should know that cracking down on one area of drug supply
>inevitably leads to another drug supply area becoming prominent. Now,
>instead of Columbia, it is Mexico, and, for a whole host of reasons, that
>puts both America¹s and Mexico²s societies and governments in dire jeopardy
Mark Greer
Media Awareness Project (MAP) inc.
d/b/a DrugSense
http://www.DrugSense.org/
http://www.mapinc.org
------------------------------
Subj: sent to Sun Sentinel
From: Mark Greer <>
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:48:22 -0800
>From: bryan krumm <>
>To: mgreer <>
>Sender:
>Reply-To: bryan krumm <>
>Subject: MAP: sent to Sun Sentinel
>Organization: Media Awareness Project http://www.mapinc.org/
>Date: Tue, 30 Dec 97 01:49:07 +0000
>
>
>
>Dear Editor,
> I find James Driscoll's recent editorials about the "War on
>Drugs" both ludicrous and appalling. His circular logic and warped
>thinking are indicative of the myths, misconceptions, and lies
>which have been used to perpetuate this war against our own people.
>This "War" has destroyed countless thousands of lives. This "War" eats
>away at the fundamental rights granted us by the Constitution, among
>which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This "War"
>has created a very lucrative job market for both "Drug Warriors"
>and drug dealers at the expense of the American people. This "War"
>is used as a smokescreen to hide the real problems which face the
>American people among which are poverty, illiteracy, unemployment
>and hopelessness.
> The "War on Drugs" will never be won through prohibition. Bill
>Clinton has steadily increased spending for the "War"; $16 billion
>has been earmarked for 1998. More people are arrested for drugs
>now than in any other time in history; there were over 640,000
>arrests in 1996 for marijuana alone and over 85% of these arrests
>were for possession. The United States, "the land of the free", has
>the highest incarceration rate in the world. Yet in spite of this
>drug use continues to increase and drugs are more available to
>more people than ever before.
> Mr. Driscoll recommends using "the nations best researchers
>in drug prevention" to instill their teachings in community anti-
>drug coalitions across the state. Over the last century, every
>major scientific study of drug policy has consistently found that
>prohibition is not effective at deterring drug use they have all
>recommended that drug use be decriminalized. The opinions of
>"scientific" experts have consistently been ignored. Meanwhile,
>the opinions of organizations like DARE and The Partnership
>for a Drug Free America are taken as gospel truth. It should
>be pointed out that research shows that DARE is highly
>ineffective, breeds disrespect for the police, and DARE
>graduates are more likely to use drugs than children who
>have not been exposed to DARE. Also, the PDFA admitted to
>ABC reporters "we feel the dangers of marijuana are so great,
>that it is better to lie to the American public, to protect
>them, than tell them the truth; this came out after they ran
>a commercial depicting the brain wave pattern of a 14 year old
>on marijuana which turned out to be of an adult in a deep coma.
>Perhaps these are the "experts" Mr. Driscoll has referred to.
> As for children not being able to learn if their brains are
>crippled by drugs, the "War on Drugs" is far more damaging to
>to them. Money is continually funnelled away from educational
>programs while "Drug Warriors" prosper. Children have lost their
>parents to incarceration and lost their homes to forfeiture. They
>are placed in foster care and are often seperated from their
>siblings as well. In schools and on the streets, children are
>terrorized by the violence created by this "War". Children
>become easy targets for drug dealers who thrive on the lucrative
>black market created by this "War".
> If we truly want to stop the harm created by drug use, it
>would be much more effective to use education, treatment, and
>tolerance. Anti-drug zealots are leading our great nation into
>a cess-pool of fascism. It is time to take back our country and
>turn it once again into the land of the free and home of the
>brave rather than the land of incarceration and home of the
>cowering masses it has become.
> Bryan A. Krumm RN
> New Mexicans for Compassionate Use
> 17 Tina Rd.
> Edgewood, N.M. 87015
> (505) 286-1325
>
>
>
Mark Greer
Media Awareness Project (MAP) inc.
d/b/a DrugSense
http://www.DrugSense.org/
http://www.mapinc.org
------------------------------
Subj: Re: Atlanta Constitution on Abernathy
From: Bil Morrison <>
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:54:21 -0600
David Hadorn wrote:
> I just received some e-mail from an editor at the AC indicating interest in
> publishing my contribution to their website discussion on the Abernathy case
> this Saturday. Apparently they will have a section devoted to these
> letters. Is Ashley Clements still out there and active on this list? Or
> are there other newshawks in Atlanta?
>
> The website is still open and apparently Wednesday morning is the deadline
> for submitting something for possible publication on Saturday. The url is
> http://www.accessatlanta.com/cgi-bin/pforum/show?ROOT23&MSG23601&Tmsgc
> ent_show
>
> David
Thanks, David. FWIW, I posted my own comments which may or may not make it. To
wit:
Whether or not Senator Abernathy got enough punishment is beside
the whole point, overlooked by some of your contributors. I personally believe
he paid his fine - let his constituents "send a meesage". However, this all
belies the point that the War on Drugs is a "collosial failure", to use Ann
Landers comments this week. Some of your readers think he should fry since he
is an elected official; he should pay a higher price. I submit to your
readership: since when has honesty and integrity been a prerequisite to entering
Congress?
Any impeachment proceedings would be a kangeroo court in today's "tough on crime
& drugs" political atmosphere, to be certain. It would also smack of the worst
hypocracy in all of US history if carried out. If the good Senator should do
anything, it should be to speak his peace, expose the War on Drugs as the
failure that it is, and campaign for the good of his constituency by calling for
policy reforms - a movement that now appears to be sweeping the nation and the
world, if not the Internet. Who knows, he might find a constituency that is
ever increasingly behind him!
As a side note, you have to give notice to those who would side with the
"prohibitionists" and post idiotic statements about "wow man, I'm so stoned like
you". Is this the type of rhetoric we are to see in the future? The "drug
warrior" crowd doesn't stand a chance if it relies on the same old distortions
and stereotypes of the long-haired hippy freak, "Wow, man" images. The
pro-reform types are educated, savvy, and are armed to the teeth with
scientific, peer-reviewed research. Please try again.
Wish me luck!
Cheers,
Bil
------------------------------
Subj: AMR vs I-57 calming down (at least on this list)
From: Mark Greer <>
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:22:53 -0800
I was quite heartened to receive this post from Donald. It refers to the
escalating negative tone regarding the AMR/I-57 dispute and I am taking
Donald up on his offer to forward his reply to my private message to him
and post it on the MAP list.
To reiterate to all list members. MAP policy is no personal attacks, no ad
hominim attacks, and generally we aim to keep it civil, positive and
upbeat. Our philosophy is to praise in public, criticize in private.
I'm glad this incident if not over is somewhat diffused and will be argued
elsewhere if necessary in the future.
>From: Donald Christen <>
>
>This is vintage write before you think clearly.
>Though true enough, I appologize for not putting
>it in a different tone and manner.
>
>Don Christen
>MV/MCMM
>
>Mark,
>You may post this if you want to.
>I also understand your message.
>Thanks for all your efforts.
Mark Greer
Media Awareness Project (MAP) inc.
d/b/a DrugSense
http://www.DrugSense.org/
http://www.mapinc.org
------------------------------
End of Maptalk-Digest V97 #561
******************************
Mark Greer () ___ ___ _ _ _ _
Media Awareness Project /' _ ` _ `\ /'_`)('_`\
P. O. Box 651 | ( ) ( ) |( (_| || (_) )
Porterville, CA 93258 (_) (_) (_) \__,_)| ,__/
(800) 266-5759 | |
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/list/maplists.htm (_)
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