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Maptalk-Digest Wednesday, December 29 1999 Volume 99 : Number 545

Gott in Himmel! Need translation help.
    From: "Don Beck" <>
RE: Gott in Himmel! Gud i himmlen.
    From: "Don Beck" <>
Re: MAP: Legalize marijuana-rigged? yes
    From: Involuntary <>
Let's get out the vote!
    From: Leroy Casterline <>
RE: Gott in Himmel! Gud i himmlen.
    From: Mark Greer <>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subj: Gott in Himmel! Need translation help.
From: "Don Beck" <>
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 04:03:44 -0600

Can anyone help me with this? It looks angry. I can but hope.  don

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jan-Eirik HOTMAIL" (by way of Richard Lake <]
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 5:48 PM
To: 
Subject: LGL-NORGE: Med ønsker om et godt nyttår :)

Vil med dette ønske alle dere der ute et riktig godt nyttår.
Vet at jeg maser og alt, men jeg spurte i sommer om å få intervjue en av
dere INN menneskene. Men ingen av dere svarte. Så jeg spør på nytt, er det
noen som er villig til å stille opp i et intervju? Om dere ikke kan møte i
Oslo - så kan vi godt ta det over telefon eller internett. Det bestemmer
dere.

Jan-Eirik Persen
Ungdom Mot Narkotika UMN

******************
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Kampen for et svakere samfunn - mot egoisme!!
E-post: <

------------------------------

Subj: RE: Gott in Himmel! Gud i himmlen.
From: "Don Beck" <>
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 08:33:18 -0600

Hey Thanks Terry!

Man, I need, if there's any way possible, to get a real comprehensive
translation of the whole message. I hope to get one of DrugSense's or MAP's
or DPFT's radio/TV experienced guys on the Norse airwaves. All suggestions
welcome. Thanks again.    don

- -----Original Message-----
From:  []
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:28 AM
To: 
Subject: Re: Gott in Himmel! Gud i himmlen.

In a message dated 12/29/99 5:04:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
writes:

<<

 Vil med dette ønske alle dere der ute et riktig godt nyttår.
 Vet at jeg maser og alt, men jeg spurte i sommer om å få intervjue en av
 dere INN menneskene. Men ingen av dere svarte. Så jeg spør på nytt, er det
 noen som er villig til å stille opp i et intervju? Om dere ikke kan møte i
 Oslo - så kan vi godt ta det over telefon eller internett. Det bestemmer
 dere.

 Jan-Eirik Persen
 Ungdom Mot Narkotika UMN >>

He wishes everyone a Happy New Year and asks if there is someone avaiable to
give an interview to INN -- Norwegian TV or radio either in Oslo or over the
phone or Internet.  He doesn't say what about -- although presumably about
drug policy.  UMN his organization.  The words mean Youth against drugs.

Terry O'Neill

------------------------------

Subj: Re: MAP: Legalize marijuana-rigged? yes
From: Involuntary <>
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 08:18:09 -0600

On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 05:05:15 -0500, Larry Seguin <>
posted article <>, which
said:

>  Frist- "Involuntary" $110 billion came from McZar himself, Quote is below.

Sorry about the moniker... I sometimes fail to sign my letters, or I
sign them with "Involuntary" which is what I use on the newsgroups.  I
go by Ethan, Ty or Damon.  They're all real names.  The first two are my
first and middle name and the last is a nickname.

> (I don't write anything I can't prove)
> ( quotes on deaths per year came from Time magazine Dec. 13 1999)
> 
> "Each year drug use exacts $110 billion in social costs, contributes to
> 52,000 drug-related deaths . . . ."
> Letter from Barry McCaffery to Governor Gary Johnson, September 16, 1999.

Interesting that he words it like that since if people weren't jailed or
put through the court system for drug use, then the costs might be only
a few million dollars for drug treatment which could easily be paid for
by a small tax on legal drugs.

> Next- McZar is lying its not 52,000 drug related! 9,082 1998 O D deaths-If
> you add everything drug related,stabbing,shootings,car accidents, etc, it's
> around 20,000!
> But as you say " driving stoned" The EMIT drug test they give you after and
> accident shows pot back 30 "DAYS".So the accident is called drug related,
> but you wouldn't actually be under the influence!!!
> I've seen people run stop signs,car searched, nothing found,thats "just an
> accident",Pot found then its "caused by drugs"

That's the gripe I have with some company policies concerning accidents.
I used to work for Wal-Mart and they had an accident policy that said
when you have an accident of any kind, even cutting yourself with a box
cutter, you're automatically sent to get a drug test.  If it comes back
positive, you are fired on the spot and you get no compensation for the
accident.  As far as I know, that policy is still in place.  They did
expect you to report even the smallest insignificant accidents.  So once
I reported a paper cut.  The assistant manager seemed concerned and she
told me to go to the office and get whatever I needed in the first aid
kit.  No drug test, though.

The second time I was trying to move riding lawn mowers.  They had been
rained on and I picked up the back end of one to swing it around.  When
I tried to shift the back end over, my hand slid on the wet surface and
I cut my smallest finger almost to the bone so that bending it back made
the meat squish out of it.  The manager told me to put a piece of tape
on it.  I had to beg to go get a tetanus shot because I knew I was at
least two years overdue for one.  No drug test there, either.  But if
you fall off a ladder or something, they do enforce it.  My point
(finally) is the same as yours.  I can smoke weed and then go clean for
2 weeks and if I have an accident and test positive I can be fired, even
though the high has been gone for 1 week, 6 days and 20 hours.

So there's no proof that drug use causes on-the-job accidents.  If they
want to do anything in high-risk jobs, they should give the workers
field tests before they can do their jobs, but I don't think anyone
should be disallowed the right to use recreational drugs.  But they can
be turned away from their jobs if the job in question is sensitive to
the accuracy and responsibility of the workers.

> legalize poll:
> When I went to the poll I voted twice to see if it worked. And it did!
> Other polls I have done wouldn't let me vote a second time, so you are
> right! the minute they see yes ahead some one could keep hiting the no
> botton over and over!!!

I'm all for online voting on these kinds of issues.  But there needs to
be some kind of safeguard against screwing up the voting system, whether
by repetitive voting as has gone on with the Detroit News poll and also
from cyber terrorists (the "bad hackers" formerly coined just
"hackers").  Also, I think information should be available to people
from the voting site.  In the case of marijuana, there should be
information from the prohibitionists on their opinions of the effects of
marijuana use on society, and information from anti-prohibitionists
explaining why prohibition isn't working and can't work, plus real
statistics with details, along with comparisons to deaths caused by
other things in society.  Just comparisons, not conclusions.  The people
can conclude.

> I have seen a local legislator and a local drug task force officer lie in
> my little county so it's going on all over the U.S.(I'm sure) They have to
> lie to win.
> But the biggest thing I think that's going on is the brain washing from ads
> on tv and radio!!!

Definitely!  That's why I think pro-marijuana ads should be on TV before
it's too late!  If this new censorship law passes which outlaws websites
describing how to build bongs and how to grow and harvest marijuana,
then I think seeing ads on TV about the benefits of marijuana
legalization and the destructiveness of prohibition will be a
hard-to-come-by reality.  If the censorship law passes, even TV news
programs that show marijuana in a positive light would be outlawed and
the only thing allowed on TV would be programs talking about how drugs
are bad.

> Has anyone noticed-every third or forth ad is-Talk to kids about drugs-cigs
> cause cancer-try our quite smoking patches-do you know some one that drinks
> to much? call 555-5555- this is your brain on drugs- we are burying our
> kids-I drive truck all night every nite and it's,hazelden (sp), ONCDP,PDFA,
> CASA,ads all f_ _ ken nite, everyone is addicted to drugs and beat there
> wifes,molest kids and shoot there neighbors,ONCDP and PDFA are in papers
> every week, I only watch tv 1-2 nites a week ,and ONCDP and PDFA are all
> over that the two nites I"m home!!

I wouldn't mind anti-drug ads on TV so much if they were honest:

They should show a black and white commercial (no dialog) of a man in
his 50's visiting his doctor, writing a prescription and perhaps
pointing out on an illustration the growth of his cancer.  They show a
short 2-second segment of him getting his medicine from his pharmacist,
then cut to his home where he's seen swallowing the assortment of pills.
Cut to his clock and maybe time-lapse it forward about 15 minutes, then
show him struggling out of bed and into the bathroom where he pukes the
contents of his stomach, including all the expensive medicine he's
taken.  You know this in the ad because from a distance they show him
sticking his finger in the toilet, then burying his head in his hands at
the frustration.  Then show him moving slowly back to the window where
he draws the blinds closed and peeks out the window.  He then moves to
his bed, reaches under the mattress and pulls out a small bag of
cannabis.  He rolls it into a joint and lights it up.  He smokes it
down.  Then we see him taking his medication again.  Then we see him lay
down and rest.  We see the clock again and we watch the hours pass.
Then we see that night has set and we hear sirens in the background.
Then we hear a loud ruckus as his door is busted down and a gun is
shoved into his mouth, his face twisted in fright.  And then he's
handcuffed and thrown in jail where we see a superimposed image of
calendar months going by as we see scene after scene of him
regurgitating his cancer and/or AIDS therapy medications.

Since this is an anti-drug ad, then the final text message on the ad
should be:

  "No excuses.  Just say no."

That is an honest ad.  The ones they show now are NOT honest and that's
the biggest problem I have with it.  Of course, if they were honest
about the issue of drugs, especially medically speaking, there would be
such an outrage by EVERYone that they would either have to let people
use marijuana medicinally, or they would have to instate martial law.

I hope for an end of prohibition against the recreational use of
marijuana, but I can't help but think that perhaps medical use will get
first priority.  Perhaps later they will discover benefits which are
certainly there for healthy people, such as cancer prevention and
over-all well being of consciousness.

> Right now I have been approached by a father who's son went informant, the
> son wanted out, but because of what he knows about dirty drug task force
> officers, he's in jail and can't get any help. Dirty cops know what will
> happen to and informant if they can get them in jail! Yipes 5:00 am got to go.
> Sorry!! Sounded off a little.
> Larry S ;)

That's what's sad.  Cops in many cities are underpaid, so giving them
free access to millions of dollars of drug seizures is just a pandora's
box of corruption every time a new seizure is encountered.  It's already
happening all over the country as we're all so familiar with.  Cops
using their badges, judges using their robes and politicians using their
fame as covers for illegal activity while they punish all of us for
doing the same things on a much smaller scale.  They're harder to catch
because nobody would suspect until they do something that is so
obviously uncoplike, unjudgelike and uncongressmanlike.

> By the way Involuntary, I've driven over 2,000,000 miles, no accidents,
> Toked on alot of them, you don't toke till your brainless!!!!Just a hit or
> two to kill the boredom. Like medical use,just enough but not "too much"

Exactly.  There is a "just right point" that is just enough and not too
much. :-)

Ty

------------------------------

Subj: Let's get out the vote!
From: Leroy Casterline <>
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 11:12:10 -0700

In case some on the list did not know of this, and at risk of an
etiquette violation,
here is something we can influence...

To: <>
Subject: What's the worst idea of the millennium?
CC: <>

(note: MSNBC is still accepting email on this subject - let's add
more entries
for the "war on drugs" and move it up higher than #10 in the ranking.)

http://www.msnbc.com/news/304111.asp

  A couple of months ago,MSNBC.com asked its readers to tell us
the single
worst idea to come along over the past 10 centuries. Whether it was the
Crusades, the Inquisition, imperialism, capitalism, communism,
bell-bottoms,
disco or even the Internet itself, we were anxious to hear from you. No
subject was out of bounds and we promised to publish the results of
our highly
unscientific and informal survey.

      AND NOW, some 24,000 e-mails later, we have the answer. But
before we
reveal the No. 1 choice, we92re still interested in hearing what you
have to
say. By filling out the form below 97 please try to keep your entry
to 50 words
or less 97 let us know what went awry in the last millennium.
There92s still
plenty of time.
        Now on to the Top Ten, in which readers give short shrift
to the first
nine hundred years of the millennium. And since the top vote getter
received
ten times more votes than anything else, it92s worth pointing out
that Internet
polls are not immune to ballot stuffing.

WORST IDEAS OF THE MILLENNIUM
  With more than 5,550 votes, the Balfour Declaration 97 a
declaration passed by
the British government in 1917 that favored establishing a Jewish
state in
Palestine 97 topped our list as the most momentous event of the past
1,000
years. One reader described the document as 93the sole cause of the
entire
Middle East problems. Not only the Palestinian people are suffering
but also
the whole humanity is paying the price.94

         New Coke, which one reader described as the 93biggest
marketing blunder
in civilization,94 came in second with 557 votes. Another reader said:
93Coca-Cola tried to improve on something that was already perfect.
New Coke
was a disaster!94

  The millennium itself and the media92s fascination with the
subject received
512 votes as the worst idea. 93The last time I looked a century was
100 years
and a millennium was 1000. Are we to change the definition of a
century to 99
years and a millennium to 999 years to appease popular opinion?
What92s next, a
23-hour day?94 wrote one reader. Another criticized MSNBC and other news
organizations for creating too many lists. 93How much of this does
any one
need? There is a list for everything: sports, tragedies, books,
movies, lists
of lists. I, for one, can92t wait for it all to end.94

         Communism also generated a lot of mail 97 511 votes at last
count.
93Millions upon millions of deaths; spiritual and physical
impoverishment of
whole nations; lies as a way of life, and the reduction of the
individual to
the role of a mere sub unit of the state,94 said one reader.

         War, most notably the war in Vietnam, was the subject of 481
responses, many of them quite emotional. One reader described the
war in
Vietnam this way: 93It was a civil war (not ours). The nation was
torn. It
emotionally crippled a generation. Sides were taken; lines were
drawn. Even
after 30 years, the memories of the war footage on TV is vivid in
minds of
those of us baby boomers who did not have to live the horrors
personally. We
should not have been there.94

         Abortion, specifically laws that allow it, generated 241
highly-critical votes as the worst idea. 93Abortion is unnatural,94
explained
one reader. 93It is not only defies the law of God but defies the
Nature. No
other animal aborts it92s young. If Nature decrees that a mother
must expire
for the 93next generation94 so be it. It92s part of the natural cycle.
This great
country will be judged so heavily upon this mortal sin.94
  The Holocaust was the subject of 163 votes as the worst idea of the
millennium. 93How is it possible,94 one reader asked, for some
9,000,000 people
to be methodically executed or exterminated?94
          Another reader tried to describe the motives behind the
slaughter of
millions of Jews this way: 93Let92s make the world completely Aryan.
Blonde
hair, blue eyes and Christian. This from a dark headed, brown eyed
failed
artist. In this misguided process, he killed millions, including
most of my
family. Some of the world92s best minds were lost. All for a
misguided dream.94

  The atomic bomb received 157 votes as the worst idea of the
millennium. 93With
the introduction of the bomb,94 said one reader, 93we ushered in a
period of
division and paranoia among nations and a race to provide weapons
of mass
destruction.94

         Gun control generated 133 votes, mainly from readers who said
government legislation was aimed at the wrong people. 93These laws
only effect
honest citizens. If laws affected behavior, there would be no
illegal drugs in
this country. Criminals don92t comply with law.94

  Rounding out the top 10 was the war on drugs, which 120 readers
said was a
waste of time and money. 93No other government action has done more
to crush
civil liberties, destroy lives, wreck havoc on the economy, inspire
corruption, promote crime, restrict legitimate law enforcement,
deny medical
treatment, discourage tolerance and trample the Bill of Rights.94

LESS SERIOUS SUBJECTS
        Many other subjects also concerned readers. In no
particular order,
here are some other ideas that generated more than a couple of
responses as
the worst idea of the millennium:
        Vinyl siding, subwoofers, Susan Anthony dollar, pet rocks,
e-mail, call
waiting, call forwarding, television, computers, HMOs, Microsoft,
television,
credit cards, spam, Muzak, Social Security, telemarketers, lawyers,
cigarettes, finger puppets, snooze alarms, pantyhose, daylight
savings time,
income taxes and eight track tapes.
        On behalf of everyone at MSNBC, which received 47 votes as
the worst
idea of the millennium, we92d like to wish everyone a very happy New
Year.

What's the worst idea?

    Submissions may be edited for clarity; names and e-mail
addresses are
always kept confidential.

95 MSNBC Terms, Conditions and Privacy A9 1999

This is to help jam the cyber voyeur's computers at ECHELON:

Echelon GCHQ CSE DSD GCSB FBI CIA NSA IRS DEA ATF BATF DOD Waco
Ruby Ridge
Oklahoma City militia handgun assault rifle terrorism bomb drug
Horiuchi
Koresh Davidian Randy Weaver Vickie Weaver Delta Force Mossad MI5 C4
Malcolm X revolution Bill Earth First Clinton Wackenhut terrorist
anarchist
smuggle assassination politics methylamphetamine PGP encryption hacker
Milosevic nuclear weapons sarin anthrax marijuana Jim Bell
botulinum toxin
Unabomber Fissionable plutonium. North Korea Militia
William Jefferson Clinton Janet Reno Barry McCaffrey
Orrin Hatch Dianne Feinstein Bob Barr gun tobacco alcohol
the federal government is a continuing criminal enterprise ..
cyberspace voyeurs go home and mind your own business!
creeps, snoops, busybodies, government whores, evil demons

------------------------------

Subj: RE: Gott in Himmel! Gud i himmlen.
From: Mark Greer <>
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 08:17:07 -0800

There used to be a babbelfish translation link on the DrugNews archive 
page. Not sure where it is now but Matt will know

At 08:33 AM 12/29/1999 -0600, Don Beck wrote:
>Hey Thanks Terry!
>
>Man, I need, if there's any way possible, to get a real comprehensive
>translation of the whole message. I hope to get one of DrugSense's or MAP's
>or DPFT's radio/TV experienced guys on the Norse airwaves. All suggestions
>welcome. Thanks again.    don
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  []
>Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:28 AM
>To: 
>Subject: Re: Gott in Himmel! Gud i himmlen.
>
>
>In a message dated 12/29/99 5:04:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
>writes:
>
>
><<
>
>  Vil med dette ønske alle dere der ute et riktig godt nyttår.
>  Vet at jeg maser og alt, men jeg spurte i sommer om å få intervjue en av
>  dere INN menneskene. Men ingen av dere svarte. Så jeg spør på nytt, er det
>  noen som er villig til å stille opp i et intervju? Om dere ikke kan møte i
>  Oslo - så kan vi godt ta det over telefon eller internett. Det bestemmer
>  dere.
>
>  Jan-Eirik Persen
>  Ungdom Mot Narkotika UMN >>
>
>He wishes everyone a Happy New Year and asks if there is someone avaiable to
>give an interview to INN -- Norwegian TV or radio either in Oslo or over the
>phone or Internet.  He doesn't say what about -- although presumably about
>drug policy.  UMN his organization.  The words mean Youth against drugs.
>
>Terry O'Neill

Mark Greer
Executive Director
DrugSense

http://www.drugsense.org
http://www.mapinc.org

------------------------------

End of Maptalk-Digest V99 #545
******************************

Mark Greer ()         ___ ___     _ _  _ _
Media Awareness Project              /' _ ` _ `\ /'_`)('_`\
P. O. Box 651                        | ( ) ( ) |( (_| || (_) )
Porterville, CA 93258                (_) (_) (_) \__,_)| ,__/
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URL: http://www.mapinc.org/lists/                      (_)

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