Maptalk-Digest Friday, December 31 1999 Volume 99 : Number 547
RE: Gott in Himmel! Translation
From: "Don Beck" <>
Re: MAP: Cop Spam: Sniffing DPR Lists
From: Involuntary <>
Last day for free 90 day trials Anti-Virus programs
From: Richard Lake <>
Our New Year
From: "RLRoot" <>
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
From: PAT <>
Re: MAP: RE: Gott in Himmel! Translation
From: Mark Greer <>
Re: MAP: Why poles are going bad-FRC,ONDCP,PDFA,etc!
From: Mark Greer <>
Subj: RE: Gott in Himmel! Translation
From: "Don Beck" <>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:25:09 -0600
Thanks, Richard! I have emailed him again, letting him know "we" are
champing at the bit for an interview. We'll see. Regards, don
- -----Original Message-----
From: Richard Dahlman 
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 12:24 PM
To: Don Beck; MAPTalk
Subject: RE: Gott in Himmel! Translation
> -----Original Message-----
> From: On
> Behalf Of Don Beck
> Sent: 29 December 1999 10:04
> To: Richard Lake (E-mail); MAPTalk-posts (E-mail)
> Subject: MAP: Gott in Himmel! Need translation help.
> Can anyone help me with this? It looks angry. I can but hope. don
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jan-Eirik HOTMAIL" (by way of Richard Lake <>)
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 5:48 PM
> Subject: LGL-NORGE: Med ønsker om et godt nyttår :)
> Vil med dette ønske alle dere der ute et riktig godt nyttår.
I hereby wish everybody out there a really happy new year.
> Vet at jeg maser og alt, men jeg spurte i sommer om å få intervjue en av
> dere INN menneskene. Men ingen av dere svarte.
I know that I have ??? everything, but I enquired in the summer about
interviewing one of you 'in' people, but none of you replied.
> Så jeg spør på nytt, er det
> noen som er villig til å stille opp i et intervju?
So, I am asking again, is there anyone who is willing to come forward for
> Om dere ikke kan møte i
> Oslo - så kan vi godt ta det over telefon eller internett. Det bestemmer
If you cannot meet in Oslo, we can do it over the telephone or Internet. You
> Jan-Eirik Persen
> Ungdom Mot Narkotika UMN
> HAR DU EN TRØTT SKOLEHVERDAG? FORSØKSGYM KURERER SKOLETRETTHET!
> Prøv oss i 14 dager, er du ikke fornøyd får du din gamle skole tilbake.
> Kontakt oss på 22 64 76 44 * E-post:
> < * Web:
UNGDOM MOT NARKOTIKA UMN
Kampen for et svakere samfunn - mot egoisme!!
Subj: Re: MAP: Cop Spam: Sniffing DPR Lists
From: Involuntary <>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:57:11 -0600
On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:12:19 -0600, Don Beck <> posted
article <000101bf5304$0789a8e0$6aa2f0d1@mycroft>, which said:
> Nobody will be surprised to learn that the law enforcement "community"
> monitors our email lists, but this proves to me that some of them use
> automated harvesting of email addresses as well.
I'm not surprised by it at all. I'm also not opposed to being
monitored. If I was, I would use PGP, which for all we know, was
written by a covert government official to encourage people to encrypt
their messages. All PGP encrypted messages (which are a vast minority
of messages) are then sent through an Echlon (sp) type system which
archives and then searches the messages for signs of illegal activity.
All of the debate over keys held in escrow is a cover for something they
can already do—but that's beside the point...
If the law enforcement community wants to read the things I write, more
power to them. Unfortunately the perception an individual has greatly
influences their judgment of the information. So while what I say may
be valid, to someone who is vehemently opposed to legalization will see
my posts as a threat to national security, if I may be so bold.
So if I thought my posts were being monitored for their value as true
opinions and observations, I would be much happier. But given the
rising opposition to legalization in some areas, it would seem that
either we're being ignored out of hand, or we're viewed as just plain
Well, I don't consider myself ignorant by any means. I'm aware that
there are deaths, thefts and other crimes in the drug world. But I can
also see that the ONLY good that arresting a non-violent drug user does
is that it's one less person in danger of being shot for not paying a
drug dealer on time for a credit he received last week. So arrest one
non-violent drug user. If the plan is to attack drugs at both the
source and the consumption end, then the goal would be to imprison both
repeat users and suppliers. One user down, 20 million to go. And of
course, the pool of users would continually grow as more people decide
to try drugs. How long will it take to get 20 million people in jail?
How long will it take before cops can nab a new drug user as soon as he
tries his first drug? As long as one drug user remains free, the War on
Drugs will still rage on, regardless of whether or not the demand has
And what if the supply of drugs has been cut off? What if the fungus
that has been engineered to destroy cannabis, coca and poppy plants
forever succeeds? With the "threat" of drugs erradicated, will all the
prisoners in jail for drug offenses be released?
And furthermore, if the fungus which targets drug marijuana succeeds and
destroys one of the most widely used safe drug herbs, how many kids will
turn to dangerous paint fumes to get a substitute high? How many people
will die if the plans for this fungus go forward?
And to say more about the fungus, I recently saw a Learning Channel
program which BTW had nothing whatsoever to do with drugs or law
enforcement. It was about various forms of life in the rain forests of
Central America. They put a mesh netting on the ground around a tree
and they sprayed poison up into the tree and bugs of all kinds fell out
of the tree and into the net. They then took the bugs to another
location where they attempted to identify all the different species.
95 or 98% of all the bugs they collected had never been identified,
which means the bugs had either never been seen before or they were new
altogether. New varieties of plants, insects and other forms of life
spring up all the time, so I'm sure there were some new and some old
which had just never been seen.
So researchers say that the fungus works. It may destroy drug crops,
but think about this. We know that there is only one kind of human,
though speaking in terms of appearance there are about 7 different
varieties with Europeans, Asians, Indians, etc... When you look at
mammals, there are more varieties. WHen you look at plants there are
still more varieties. Look at insects. There are more species of
insects on the planet than there are individual humans. Notice the
trend? The smaller the life forms become, the more numerous the
variety. I think it's safe to conclude that this fungus has not come
into contact with every life form on the planet, therefore the results
of using it are unpredictable at best, except that it will destroy
marijuana. But will it destroy a vital food source for a whole species
of insects, which a species of birds feed on? Microbacteria have to
eat, too. What will this fungus do to their food source? And what will
the result be if the bacteria mutates to counteract the fungus? How
will it upset the balance of the ecosystem?
Subj: Last day for free 90 day trials Anti-Virus programs
From: Richard Lake <>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 07:18:41 -0500
Thank you, Lee
Hope nobody thinks this is off topic - today, New Year's Eve, is the last
day to obtain a free 90 day trial of your choice of a number of anti-virus
programs by special arrangement from Microsoft.
Hopefully none of you has ever had virus problems, but they are common and
very real. At the university department where I work we find virus every
week, sometimes every day (students tending to stick their floppys into
every available hole). If you have no protection this is a good offer.
Simply go to the following URL and select a program of your choice for a
trial (however, if you have had a free trial of the same program it may not
work - select one you have not tried);
Two actions are critical - one is to install the Anti-Virus software by
December 31, 1999; the other is to check the chosen Anti-Virus software
manufacturer's Web site periodically for updated virus signature files.
These signature files can change daily and are also offered free of charge
during the 90 day trial period.
At 03:14 AM 12/31/1999 -0500, Lee T. Neidow wrote:
>I was sent anti-virus "updates" by Norton only 3 days ago, and also some
>That's indicative that they discovered more bugs of some type, at least
two of them, over just the last 3 day period.
>Running the anti-virus program after installing the update today, I found
all my files were clean. I hope that everyone else's are too.
Subj: Our New Year
From: "RLRoot" <>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 06:41:20 -0800
As we experience the world's odometer rolling over to mark a significant
milestone in the history of mankind, I want to take this opportunity to wish
you, all the people I share thoughts with over this wonder of our age,
the internet, the very best in the coming years.
My wish for all the individuals and communities of the world; Life,
Liberty, and Happiness!
My personal thought on Y2K:
Fears and concerns that machines will not comply to our commands and deny us
our modern conveniences are misplaced. Our fears and concerns should be
over the mechanization of the human, which regardless of or with
indifference to programming, denies us the ability to choose our own
This message was sent to all that I have communicated with over the past
year via email. Please accept my apologies for any duplicates you have
Subj: FOOD FOR THOUGHT
From: PAT <>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:23:13 +0000
I was cleaning out some files and came across an editorial I wrote for
some newspaper somewhere....Let me kow what you think.. PAT
It seems that most of the prohibitionist types are motivated by a
passion, a religious calling, or some moral imperative, that may be
thinly masking greed, racism, and a general disregard for freedom.
Most drug reformers are arguing the expense of the drug war in terms of
police, courts, foreign aid, etc., while the prohibitionists are
“saving the poor lot of humanity from themselves.” Remember, that the
temperance movement began as a religious movement. The Reformers are
arguing healthy drug use while the Prohibitionists are are trying to
“save peoples lives”.
All of the possible policy oriented arguments will be to no avail,
until the moral argument that motivates the prohibitionists is
neutralized. I have read few arguments for drug policy reform that
addresses the most important foundation of the prohibitionists, that is
, “they feel they are on a mission from God, out to save humanity from
the evils of drug abuse. And how can we put a cost on human suffering
or a cost on human life?
This kind of thinking is what justifies huge expenditures of cash, and
the total disregard of civil rights, property rights, our constitution.
It tolerates extreme methods and “a few deaths to save the many.” It
tolerates other casualties like ignoring human dignity, humane
treatment, and freedom from the discrimination society is showing to the
drug user, in housing, employment, etc. Hell, you think we had leprosy
Until the prohibitionists see that they are tying to save people that
do not need to be saved they will continue an “at all costs” strategy.
That the “saving” is between an individual and his Maker . Because
ultimately drug abuse and addiction are symptoms of a dis-ease of the
human spirit, government has a very limited role before it treads on
the ground of religion .
It is time for reformists to spend a little time familiarizing
themselves with this part of the debate. Ultimately, this war will be
won on a similarity of moral convictions, on finding that common ground
that “eases human suffering”. There are millions of former drug
abusers and addicts that have had little voice in shaping the reform
movement’s direction. They are the ones that have “been there, done
that “, they are the ones that shoulder the weight of these failed
policies. They are the “Criminals” that can’t vote because they got
busted, couldn’t get treatment for themselves, or their families, that
can’t get a job without lieing, and have the experience to tell the
Subj: Re: MAP: RE: Gott in Himmel! Translation
From: Mark Greer <>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:20:20 -0800
If this is the German version of People Magazine and he can communicate in
English I will do an interview with him. If he needs German I could post to
ARO to see if anyone can help him out.
At 06:23 PM 12/30/1999 +0000, Richard Dahlman wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: On
> > Behalf Of Don Beck
> > Sent: 29 December 1999 10:04
> > To: Richard Lake (E-mail); MAPTalk-posts (E-mail)
> > Subject: MAP: Gott in Himmel! Need translation help.
> > Can anyone help me with this? It looks angry. I can but hope. don
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jan-Eirik HOTMAIL" (by way of Richard Lake <>)
> > 
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 5:48 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: LGL-NORGE: Med ønsker om et godt nyttår :)
> > Vil med dette ønske alle dere der ute et riktig godt nyttår.
>I hereby wish everybody out there a really happy new year.
> > Vet at jeg maser og alt, men jeg spurte i sommer om å få intervjue en av
> > dere INN menneskene. Men ingen av dere svarte.
>I know that I have ??? everything, but I enquired in the summer about
>interviewing one of you 'in' people, but none of you replied.
> > Så jeg spør på nytt, er det
> > noen som er villig til å stille opp i et intervju?
>So, I am asking again, is there anyone who is willing to come forward for
> > Om dere ikke kan møte i
> > Oslo - så kan vi godt ta det over telefon eller internett. Det bestemmer
> > dere.
>If you cannot meet in Oslo, we can do it over the telephone or Internet. You
> > Jan-Eirik Persen
> > Ungdom Mot Narkotika UMN
> > ******************
> > HAR DU EN TRØTT SKOLEHVERDAG? FORSØKSGYM KURERER SKOLETRETTHET!
> > Prøv oss i 14 dager, er du ikke fornøyd får du din gamle skole tilbake.
> > Kontakt oss på 22 64 76 44 * E-post:
> > < * Web:
> > <http://www.skolesjefen.oslo.no/skole/forsokgym>http://www.skolesj
>UNGDOM MOT NARKOTIKA UMN
>Kampen for et svakere samfunn - mot egoisme!!
Subj: Re: MAP: Why poles are going bad-FRC,ONDCP,PDFA,etc!
From: Mark Greer <>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:37:26 -0800
I don't really worry about this much. The bottom line is that there are
very few people who will volunteer or write LTEs for FRC and the like. Our
dedicated volunteers know they are right and are willing to donate time to
educate the public. The only people who agree with Magginis are people
whose paycheck depends on the drug war. Not very good motivation.
At 03:52 PM 12/29/1999 -0500, Larry Seguin wrote:
>Below is from pages 12,13,and 14, from booklet by Family Research Council(FRC)
>801 G Street N W
>Washington, D C 20001
>Legislative Hotline 202-783-home
>order Line 1-800-225-4008
>I think FRC,ONDCP,PDFA,Hazelden, and others get the free maptalk and alerts
>then forward to there people so they can do ltes againest us and counter
>the poles.Maybe you all know this anyway! The booklet is done by: Robert L.
>Maginnis, FRC's senior director for national security and foreign affairs.
>I think I read he is a retired col. from armed forces?
>Note STUDY YOUR OPPONENTS section. There is 12 other pages of the most
>ignorant things you can imagine.This is part of the booklet free to everyone.
>Maybe some one should go to there sites for free newsletters and alerts and
>post with maptalk, but if they know who repost to maptalk they will delete
>them from there list. Does this make any sense????
>Larry S ;)
> What To Do?
>Medical marijuana has become a state issue requiring local action. There
>are a host of actions that can help local groups to stop future medical
>marijuana referenda. Even though federal anti-drug laws trump state
>referenda, these groups must be careful not to assume that the federal
>government will come to their rescue. The federal government is tied up in
>court cases and has shown little willingness to become decisively engaged
>in state initiatives.
>Consider the following actions that can help turn the tide on medical
> IDENTIFY A LEADER AND/OR A COALITION. The first and most important
>action is to form or identify a statewide grassroots organization.
> IDENTIFY KEY MEMBERS OF YOUR TEAM. Study every aspect of this
> issue and
>identify those uniquely qualified to be public spokespersons. It is
>especially important to identify medical doctors willing to participate and
>informed for the debate. Attorneys familiar with the state constitution
>and drug laws must also play key roles. Law enforcement and educators
>should be part of your team. Most critical are parents who are tightly
>concerned that legalizing drugs will negatively influence children.
> EDUCATE YOUR PUBLIC. Develop and air public sevrvice
> announcements. Send
>you team to civic and community group meetings to inform the public.
>Enlist the drug treatment community and school-based drug counselors to
>join the educational battle. Produce a short video documentary that
>includes interviews with parents and their children hurt by drug abuse and
>physicians who comment on the need to provide quality health care that
>excludes crude marijuana.
> INVOLVE CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS. Most civic organizations look for
>service opportunities. Show them why actively opposing marijuana as
>medicine leads to better business, safer highways, lower social costs, and
> STUDY YOUR OPPONENTS. Study their material via the Internet and
>to their publications.. Go to their events.
> PERSUADE THE MEDIA. Go early to you local media outlets and sell
> them on
>your position. Ask them how they will help.
> POLL VOTERS. Your opponent will use polling information to give
>credibility to his position. You need to beat him to the punch. Craft
>your polls both to clarify the issue and to ascertain people's thinking.
>Use the polling data in letters to the editor, in your brochures, and in
>speeches and debates.
> RECRUIT MEDICAL ASSOCIATIONS. The medical community must
> strongly oppose
>crude marijuana as medicine if for no other reason than that it distorts
>the proven scientific process. Doctors should want to give their patients
>pure, properly dosed medicine.
> FINANCE YOU EFFORTS. This is perhaps the most difficult
> challenge. You
>already know that you opponents will have access to out-of-state deep
>pockets. You must be prepared to counter them with a combination of
>preemptive work and grassroots action. It will also be helpful to have the
>means to counter their media blitz that inevitably comes in the weeks just
>prior to the referendum vote.
> INVOLVE THE FAITH COMMUNITY. They need to understand the moral
>involved with drug abuse. They also need to appreciate the facts about
>marijuana as medicine. Most importantly, they need to understand the
>impact that marijuana is having on the local community.
> INVOLVE LAW ENFORCEMENT. Each community has DARE counselors who
>address the use of marijuana as medicine in its schools. Encourage law
>enforcement officials to make public statements opposing medical marijuana.
> INVOLVE GOVERNMENT ANTI-DRUG GRANTEES. Anti-drug federal
> grantees are not
>prohibited fro speaking against the abuse of illegal drugs.
> PASS STATUTES TO PROHIBIT INITIATIVES THAT WOULD VIOLATE FEDERAL LAW.
>Federal laws prohibit the use of marijuana except in a few limited
>situations. State laws that permit marijuana as medicine stand opposed to
> CHECK POLITICAL GIFTS OF PRO-DRUG DONORS. Political giving has
> been known
>to influence policy positions and decisions. Expose the facts about
>pro-drug political gifts.
> CHALLENGE SIGNATURES ON MARIJUANA INITIATIVES. You have the right as
>citizens to insist that your secretary of state validate every signature on
>a ballot initiative. This tactic helped the people of Colorado defeat
>their 1998 initiative.
> INSIST THAT YOUR LEGISLATURE HOST A HEARING TO REVIEW PROPOSED
>INITIATIVES. You should build a team of respected witnesses to testify
>before your legislature to explain why marijuana must not become an
> LINK ISSUES FOR PUBLIC AWARENESS. Advocates fo medical marijuana are
>often associated with other issues. For example, marijuana advocate Dennis
>Peron is a "gay" activist. Pornographers like Larry Flynt support medical
>marijuana. George Soros is an assisted suicide advocate.
> EXPOSE POSSIBLE LIABILITIES. For instance, marijuana-as-medicine
>create liability problems under the Americans with Disabilities Act for
>transportation, business, education, law enforcement and many other
>professions. The Supreme Court is now considering an ADA case of twin
>sisters who want to be pilots for United Airlines and are saying that their
>extreme nearsightedness should be considered a disability protected against
>employment bias. Can a state deny employment to a school bus dribver,
>teacher, or police officer who uses marijuana as medicine?
> INVOLVE PARENT-TEACHER ORGANIZATIONS. The PTA needs to learn that
>marijuana as medicine encourages children to abuse drugs.
> INVOLVE THE YOUTH. One of the best ways to influence adult voters is
>through their children. Television advertisers have long understood the
>influence that children have on parents.
>Communities across America face an assult from those who would legalize
>marijuana. Don't be hoodwinked by claims that sick and dying people need
>marijana. They don't. They need good medicine, which our doctors have
>available for every ailment marijuana allegedly helps.. Most of all,
>parents must defeat the pro-drug lobby's message that marijuana is
>medicine, because this propaganda contrbutes to the false perception that
>marijuana is a harmless drug.
End of Maptalk-Digest V99 #547
Mark Greer () ___ ___ _ _ _ _
Media Awareness Project /' _ ` _ `\ /'_`)('_`\
P. O. Box 651 | ( ) ( ) |( (_| || (_) )
Porterville, CA 93258 (_) (_) (_) \__,_)| ,__/
(800) 266-5759 | |
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/lists/ (_)