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Maptalk-Digest Thursday, December 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 332

LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
    From: "Dave Michon" <>
Fw: [narconews] Investigation/Photos: Assassination of Casimiro Huanca
    From: "RLRoot" <>
Pain - The Disease, in NYTimes Mag
    From: "Dave Michon" <>
Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
    From: "kim hanna" <>
Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
    From: Gerald Sutliff <>
Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
    From: "Dave Michon" <>
Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
    From: "kim hanna" <>
Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
    From: "Dave Michon" <>
Words of Wisdom from Budd Schulberg
    From: Gerald Sutliff <>
RE: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
    From: "Tom Suther" <>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subj: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
From: "Dave Michon" <>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:18:06 -0600

At http://www.msnbc.com/news/675278.asp
I sent:
"It is becoming obvious that the Media shapes messages around the packages
they dispense. I cannot believe, for instance, that there aren't more
fascinating stories on the scope of Drug Prohibition in our society than the
minute amount of coverage we see. The Media signed-on to the Drug War,
officially, some years ago. Now that it is an egregious flop and is being
protected so vehemently by self-serving government officials I think the
media has an obligation to report on it as the bankrupt policy that it is.
The US becomes the largest prison country in the world and it's not a story?
Maybe it's not in the Ivory Towers but it sure is out here in the
Heartland."
Dave Michon

------------------------------

Subj: Fw: [narconews] Investigation/Photos: Assassination of Casimiro Huanca
From: "RLRoot" <>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:03:13 -0800

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Alberto M. Giordano" <>
To: <>
Cc: <>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 5:38 AM
Subject: [narconews] Investigation/Photos: Assassination of Casimiro Huanca

December 20, 2001
Please Distribute Widely

Dear Colleagues,

We have returned from the Amazon region of Chapare and concluded the first
phase of our investigation into the December 6th assassination of coca
growers' union leader Casimiro Huanca.

Narco News went to the crime scene, took testimony from eyewitnesses,
gathered photographic evidence, solved the crime -- and found that there has
been a massive cover-up of the facts by the Bolivian and US governments.

Our "White Paper" on the assassination of Casimiro Huanca now appears on
Narco News:

http://www.narconews.com/

In the coming days, Narco News will present interviews with Bolivian
indigenous and social leaders including Felipe Quispe, "El Mallku" of the
Aymayra nation, and congressman Evo Morales. These important interviews will
be published in English and in Spanish.

If this is Thursday it must be La Paz, capital of Bolivia. Stay tuned for
more "Live from Bolivia" reports.

From somewhere in a country called América,

Al Giordano
Publisher
The Narco News Bulletin
http://www.narconews.com/


Gift subscriptions -- gratis! -- for alerts of new reports:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/narconews

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------

Subj: Pain - The Disease, in NYTimes Mag
From: "Dave Michon" <>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:30:36 -0600

Might have to register; an easy one. On about the 4th page of the article,
they provide a page for responding with pain stories and opinions. The WOD,
of course, is what's behind all this untreated pain.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/16/magazine/16PAIN.html
Dave

------------------------------

Subj: Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
From: "kim hanna" <>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:39:01 

Thanks for that link Dave and good letter.
I'll send him something soon.
A few letters about the WOD could help.

I checked that page and the CHAT section.
Guess who chatted today?
Asa Hutchinson (DEA).
here's the edited transcript.
====================
Head of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration,
Asa Hutchinson

DEA Administrator Asa Hutchinson

Answering your questions on the war on drugs and the war on terrorism

Dec. 20 —  DEA Administrator Asa Hutchinson chats withMSNBC.com about the 
contradictions and common ground between the war on drugs and the war on 
terrorism, also taking questions on some of the other missions of the DEA. 
Hutchinson took chatters’ questions over the phone, with his answers relayed 
by a typist on the call transcribed below. Chat producer Will Femia 
moderates.MSNBC-Will Femia: Ok, I have Mr. Hutchinson here with me now. 
Welcome.

       Question from MidUSA: The Northen Alliance is known to fund itself 
with heroin money.. do you agree with the UN’s decision to allow the N 
alliance a voice in the new Afghanistan government?

       Asa Hutchinson: Certainly the Northern Alliance will have some level 
of influence on the new government. And even though we’re not naive about 
the depth of the drug problem in Afghanistan and the many different people 
who have ties to it, we are hopeful that the new government will be more 
open to the international desire to reduce the opium cultivation.

  Question from Xuvy: What is the DEA’s connection to fighting terrorism?

       Question from norm: Isn’t much of the common root of international 
Terrorism financed by the underground drug economy, creating strange 
bedfellows like the FARC and Hamas, And doesn’t this Narco Terrorism 
represent the financial engine for most terrorism?
There is a current and a historical connection between terrorism and drug 
trafficking groups.
— ASA HUTCHINSON

       Asa Hutchinson: Absolutely. There is a current and a historical 
connection between terrorism and drug-trafficking groups. We see that in 
Colombia, Afghanistan and in Burma. In Afghanistan, the Taliban received 
tens of millions of dollars each year as revenue from heroin trafficking. In 
Colombia, the FARC is clearly financed in part from drug trafficking. The 
DEA has been engaged in fighting this connection for decades, but there is a 
new momentum that will hopefully reduce the consumption of drugs knowing 
that it benefits terrorism but also a greater international interest in 
reducing drugs as one of the revenue sources for violent groups.

       Question from Doug Greer: Do you think resources could be better 
allocated from the war on pot, to the war on hard drugs and foriegn 
smugglers? Why or why not?

       MSNBC-Will Femia: How much has this already happened either as a 
result of your own initiatives or the war on terrorism?
As a national policy we certainly want to emphasize treatment of addiction 
problems for non-violent non-traffickers, rather than putting them in 
prison.
— ASA HUTCHINSON

       Asa Hutchinson: The possession, use and trafficking in marijuana 
remains illegal. The DEA does try to carefully allocate its resources and we 
go after the traffickers. We leave it primarily to our state and local law 
enforcement agencies to deal with the possession of small amounts of drugs 
so the DEA resources are allocated to the major trafficking organizations. 
As a national policy, we certainly want to emphasize treatment of addiction 
problems for non-violent non-traffickers, rather than putting them in 
prison. That’s one benefit from drug courts that we are very supportive of.

       Question from MidUSA: With all that is going on in the world today.. 
where is the DEA concentrating its efforts? Have your goals been altered?

       Asa Hutchinson: The Department of Justice as a whole and specifically 
the FBI has put counter-terrorism as the number one priority. In reference 
to the DEA, our focus remains the issue of drugs, so we have not changed our 
mission or emphasis. In fact, more pressure is on the DEA in this arena 
because other agencies are having to concentrate more on counter terrorism. 
Our contribution to counter-terrorism is to fight drug trafficking, which is 
one of the sources of revenue for terrorists.

       Question from Dave Wilhelm: Hello, Director Hutchison: With the 
economic drain that the current war on international terrorism is 
responsible for on both American and world resources, do you foresee a 
monetary shortfall for achieving your agency’s goals? Or will this be a 
further driving force to support DEA operations to stymie potential flow of 
income in the direction of terrorists? Dave Wilhelm Bellevue Community 
College, Bellevue, Washington
I expect the commitment to fighting the battle against drugs in our country 
to remain steady and without any reduction in resources.
— ASA HUTCHINSON

       Asa Hutchinson: Resources will be tight because there are many 
demands to provide homeland security and to fight terrorism. I expect the 
commitment to fighting the battle against drugs in our country to remain 
steady and without any reduction in resources. If there is a realignment 
where other agencies have to readjust their priorities and do less in the 
fight against drugs, then certainly the DEA should get the resources to add 
to the additional responsibility.

       Question from Walter: Much has been made lately of how terrorists use 
drug money to finance terror, thus (we’re told) the Drug War must continue. 
But if drugs were legal, wouldn’t that money dry up? And wouldn’t, then, the 
terrorists be the last people who’d want drug use decriminalized? Phrased 
bluntly, the Drug War is helping terrorists (just as it aids civil wars, 
etc, in South America). The more you fight drugs, the higher the price of 
those drugs, and, ultimately, the more money to terrorists, revolutionaries, 
criminals, etc.

       Asa Hutchinson: It’s a good question. The answer is that unless you 
legalize all drugs from marijuana to heroin, from cocaine to 
methamphetamines, from ecstasy to every other kind of drug out there, then 
legalizing one would have no economic benefit. Nor would there be any 
reduction in the criminal element. I don’t know of hardly anyone who 
supports legalization of heroin and some of the other dangerous drugs. If 
you legalize marijuana, will the traffickers go out of business? The answer 
is no because they will deal in heroin, cocaine and any other drug that is 
prohibited. So I don’t believe legalization is the answer. Nor do I believe 
that it would dry up the funding temptation for the terrorist organizations.

       Question from Uzi Bloch: What actions are the DEA taking to decrease 
DEMAND for drugs? After all, without demand, there would be no drug 
trafficking and no need for a War on Drugs.

       Question from Sherry Skluus: Dear Mr. Hutchinson, I’ve been reading 
that since the 9-11 tragedy, drinking and alcoholic relapses are up. I know 
that’s not illegal, but have you seen a similar increase in drug use and 
what can be done about it?

       Asa Hutchinson: On the first question, the DEA is trying to do its 
share in reducing the demand for drugs. In fact yesterday I announced a new 
initiative in which we are doubling the number of demand reduction agents in 
the DEA. So, it is important and we’re following up with a very specific 
initiative to work with our communities in reducing the demand for drugs 
after we dismantle a criminal organization.

       On the next question, after September 11th, it’s really too early to 
tell whether there’s any significant impact on the consumption of drugs. I 
think what you have to watch is an abuse of prescription drugs. There 
certainly has been an impact in the enforcement arena and there’s been a 
shift in the transportation routes of the traffickers. The seizures have 
gone up along the border and the traffickers are avoiding airports because 
of tighter security.

       Question from Heck and Wrath: Has the greater effort to seal U.S. 
borders from terrorist and to get rid of illegals who’ve been slipping 
through the cracks been a windfall for the DEA in also keep out drug dealers 
and smugglers?

       MSNBC-Will Femia: You addressed that in the last question, but are 
there other ways that war on drugs benefits indirectly from the war on 
terror that we haven’t mentioned?
The other benefit since September 11th is that more of the public understand 
that buying drugs is not just illegal and harmful but also benefits 
terrorism.
— ASA HUTCHINSON

       Asa Hutchinson: As I said, the seizures have gone up along the border 
and the lesson from that is that a law enforcement presence makes a 
difference. At first the traffickers avoided the border but then when they 
started moving their product through, the officials along the border made 
significant seizures of the drugs being transported. The other benefit since 
September 11th is that more of the public understand that buying drugs is 
not just illegal and harmful but also benefits terrorism. So hopefully there 
will be a reduction in use and we will enter an era of responsibility.

       Question from Tara: With Internet activity at an all time 
high......is there evidence of drug sales via the net? And if so, how you 
you track and find these people?
We are concerned about the effort on the internet by some in the medical 
community to sell prescription drugs.
— ASA HUTCHINSON

       Asa Hutchinson: We are concerned about the effort on the internet by 
some in the medical community to sell prescription drugs. These open an 
opportunity for abuse of controlled drugs like Oxycontin. So we are looking 
at that but it is difficult on the enforcement side because the internet, of 
course, could be operated out of a foreign country. But we are increasing 
our enforcement efforts for any diversion on the Internet.

       Question from MidUSA: Is the DEA working with the CIA to stop the 
importation of heroin from Afghanistan?

       MSNBC-Will Femia: How much are the DEA and the CIA working together? 
We don’t hear much about it, but it would see there is at least a little 
overlap in the missions of the two departments. What about with the DOD?

       Asa Hutchinson: The DEA is working with the Department of Defense and 
the other agencies involved in Afghanistan. The DEA will also work with 
other countries around Afghanistan to stop the flow of drugs coming out. 
Within Afghanistan, even though we’re currently concentrating on getting the 
terrorists, we will soon be concentrating on stopping the production of 
opium and this will take a coordination between all of the agencies and the 
new government in Afghanistan.

       Question from Chris: Sir, we see the detrimental effects that smoking 
and drinking of alcohol cause, yet they are legal. Why is it so important 
for stimulant to build the body, such as anabolic steroids, to be treated as 
drugs? It seems to me a bit hypocritical. I am not asking to hear the pat 
answer, I would really like to know what the DEA is trying to accomplish.

       MSNBC-Will Femia: We got a lot of this type of question. Does the DEA 
have a position on why some things are legal and other’s aren’t?

       Asa Hutchinson: Well, in terms of what lines you draw to separate 
what drug is legal versus illegal, those decisions are made by our elected 
representatives who have determined certain drugs so harmful that they 
should not be legal under any circumstances and other drugs with limited 
benefit being highly regulated. So in any society, the tough judgments are 
made by our elected representatives and just because they draw a line we may 
think is hypocritical... that’s the way democracy works. I believe the lines 
have been drawn fairly and with good reason, balancing the level of harm to 
society and to the individual with the public attitude toward the drugs.

       Question from Bman: Asa, I am excited you were chosen for the DEA. 
You seem to be a level-headed thinker. Are you working on any new strategies 
to solve some of our drug problems?

       Asa Hutchinson: The DEA is open to new strategies and we’re working 
hard to make sure we’re using the right strategy to go after the emerging 
drug problems such as ecstasy and the other designer drugs. We’re also 
looking internationally to develop the right strategy in Afghanistan. The 
right approach for America on the anti-drug effort is to be consistent, to 
not look for a quick fix and to recognize how many lives you save by 
reducing the consumption, increasing the risk on traffickers and helping 
those who have addiction problems.

       MSNBC-Will Femia: Thank you very much for your time Mr. Hutchinson.

       Asa Hutchinson: Thank you!

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

------------------------------

Subj: Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
From: Gerald Sutliff <>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:11:51 -0800

Dear Kim,

Thank you!!  Now we know that Hutchinson is Asa as Dubha.

vty
jerry

At 10:39 PM 12/20/01 +0000, kim hanna wrote:

>I checked that page and the CHAT section.
>Guess who chatted today?
>Asa Hutchinson (DEA).
>here's the edited transcript.

------------------------------

Subj: Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
From: "Dave Michon" <>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:04:57 -0600

"Question from Doug Greer:
Do you think resources could be better allocated from the war on pot, to the
war on hard drugs and foriegn smugglers?"

This is what really makes me angry - the hypocrisy, and the willingness to
trade one related oppressed group - addicts - just to take the heat off your
own rec use. - Dave

------------------------------

Subj: Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
From: "kim hanna" <>
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:50:35 

I'm not sure if it's hypocrisy Dave or that he just
does'nt understand that all drug prohibitions will fail.
A lot of pot reformers still think hard drugs should be
prohibited.  They don't get the BIG picture.

Looks like Asa got some good questions.  I'm glad he's out there for debate. 
He's a master politician and will be hard to trip up.

Asa stated against Gov. Johnson & in this Chat that our politicians have 
deliberated greatly over what drugs to ban but we know they never gave pot a 
chance and no debate at all in 1937. all reports/studies contradict our 
Rep's anyway on pot. Pot is virtually harmless for all intents
and purposes.

Asa's been falling back on the old joint=pack of cig's
study for pot's harm but we now know that the machines used to test cig's 
are FAULTY and are not accurate. The study Asa quotes is false.

We should keep transcripts of his debates/chats for reference to create good 
questions for him when he makes himself available again.

Wish we knew about the chat beforehand but that transcript was edited; looks 
like it was moderated, some how. I'm going to sign up for email notice on 
chats from them for future ref's

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Dave Michon" <>
Reply-To: "Dave Michon" <>
To: "kim hanna" <>, <>
Subject: Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:04:57 -0600

"Question from Doug Greer:
Do you think resources could be better allocated from the war on pot, to the
war on hard drugs and foriegn smugglers?"

This is what really makes me angry - the hypocrisy, and the willingness to
trade one related oppressed group - addicts - just to take the heat off your
own rec use. - Dave

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

------------------------------

Subj: Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
From: "Dave Michon" <>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:38:23 -0600

Re:
"I'm not sure if it's hypocrisy Dave or that he just
does'nt understand that all drug prohibitions will fail.
A lot of pot reformers still think hard drugs should be
prohibited.  They don't get the BIG picture."

I maintain that it is hypocrisy to say, "Go after the 'white powder' (an
oft-used shibboleth) as much as you want man but just leave me alone." I
will always hit on this subject when I see it. On to other things:

Re:
"We should keep transcripts of his debates/chats for reference to create
good questions for him when he makes himself available again."

I give Asa credit for making himself available for debate. Here is one I'd
like to ask him:
"As even Drug War Hawks begin to concede that we must reduce demand and
that, to do that, you must have some insight into why people use drugs -
what they are about, how are the American people well-served by having
someone serving in your position who's impressions of drug use and drug
culture were forged in the hermetically-sealed furnace of Bob Jones
University?"
Dave

------------------------------

Subj: Words of Wisdom from Budd Schulberg
From: Gerald Sutliff <>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:42:24 -0800

Dear Talkers,

The following LTE to The Nation (Dec. 31, 2001) shows that somehow we never 
learn about Prohibition.  It's by Budd Schulberg.  He wrote "The Harder 
they Fall" later made into my favorite movie about the fight business.

BOXER'S BILL OF RIGHTS

>I agree with many of your letter writers [Boxing Days" Dec. 17], Jack 
>Newfield, as usual, has hit the nail clearly on the head.  The beautiful 
>and brutal sport of boxing can't be abolished, because every time it has 
>been -- nineteenth century England or early twentieth-century New Your -- 
>it has mushroomed in illegal form, like speakeasies in the 1920s.  What it 
>begs for is reform, an honest and aggressive trade union for the only 
>professional athlete with no protection, no pension. Newfield's Bill of 
>Rights for Boxers should be fistic (sic?) Ten Commandments.  May the 
>powers that be (and the powers that shouldn't be) heed his prayers.  Power 
>to the fighters.
>BUDD SCHULBERG

vty
Jerry Sutliff

------------------------------

Subj: RE: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman
From: "Tom Suther" <>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 21:04:55 -0800

Dave

I am not sure if I would take it that way.  But I agree that the addicts
like the pot smokers are being unfairly sought out.  I think the smugglers
ought to be stopped.  The means is the difference.  They out to be stopped
by providing the materials via a regulated source.  I say this because I do
not want to see users get the bad stuff or not know the concentration and
OD.

The government can do some things right and regulation is one they make a
good attempt at being right about.  Pot without herbicides and pesticides
would be my desire.  I am sure the addict or the some time users of heroin
and coke would want that too.

BTW not all users of heroin and cocaine are addicted.  At least I think I
heard that correctly.  Some have the tendency to become addicted easier than
others.  This is the main reason I refuse TV in my house.  I have the
tendency towards addiction.  So I am glad for the difficulty in getting some
drugs.

Cheers
Tom

- -----Original Message-----
From:  []On Behalf Of
Dave Michon
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 4:05 PM
To: kim hanna; 
Subject: Re: MAP: LTE to MSNBC Omsbudsman

"Question from Doug Greer:
Do you think resources could be better allocated from the war on pot, to the
war on hard drugs and foriegn smugglers?"

This is what really makes me angry - the hypocrisy, and the willingness to
trade one related oppressed group - addicts - just to take the heat off your
own rec use. - Dave

------------------------------

End of Maptalk-Digest V01 #332
******************************

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