Pubdate: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 Source: Fox News Network (US) Show: Hannity & Colmes Copyright: 2001 Fox News Network, Inc. Contact: http://www.foxnews.com/ Hosts: Alan Colmes, Sean Hannity Guests: Barbara Harris, Lynn Gold Bikin Cited: C.R.A.C.K. http://www.cashforbirthcontrol.com/ Facts: http://www.familywatch.org/crack.htm SHOULD DRUG-ADDICTED WOMEN BE PAID TO NOT HAVE CHILDREN? HANNITY: As we continue on HANNITY & COLMES, coming up next, we'll talk to Fox News political analyst Dick Morris. And then, tonight, I go one-on-one with President Clinton's former national economic advisor Gene Sperling. We'll talk about energy and some other matters. And in the "Battle Zone" on this Tuesday, should a drug-addicted mother of 13 be allowed to have more children? A group called Children Requiring a Caring Community says that it will pay this woman and any other drug-addicted mother to stop having children. To get the money, the mother must prove she's gotten a tubal ligation or some other form of long-term birth control. But would the money be spent better on some type of drug-treatment program? Joining us from Los Angeles, Barbara Harris. She is the founder of this group, C.R.A.C.K., Children Requiring a Caring Community. And from Philadelphia, attorney Lynn Gold Bikin is with us. Just to point out, to establish your credentials, Barbara, you yourself have -- as part of this effort, you have adopted four crack- addicted babies yourself. BARBARA HARRIS, C.R.A.C.K.: Right. We adopted four out of eight born to one addict. HANNITY: This particular woman in the article today in "The Detroit Free News -- Free Press" -- she gave birth to 13 of these kids. Most of them were drug addicted? HARRIS: Right. Five or six were drug addicted. The last baby she had in April... HANNITY: Yeah. Died. HARRIS: ... was born addicted and died after being on life support for two weeks. HANNITY: I remember some -- a couple of years ago, we interviewed you when you had first started this program. The first 95 women that you paid -- correct me if I'm wrong -- had a total of -- 95 women now had a total of 675 pregnancies, 243 abortions, 433 kids were born, 67 died, 265 ended in foster care, and many of them, again, drug addicted. HARRIS: Right. Those are correct. HANNITY: Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the program. What -- you're not forcing anybody, but you're offering an alternative as a means of preventing other children from being born addicted to drugs. HARRIS: Right. HANNITY: It's a choice you offer people. HARRIS: Right. We just offer a cash incentive to women who are drugs or alcoholics to use long-term birth control in the hopes of preventing damaged babies from being born, and it's their choice. They have a choice of whether they take us up on the offer or not and what type of birth control they use. HANNITY: Lynn, I got to say -- I mean -- you know what? Who wants these kids to be born and -- and -- basically, I consider it, in the case of this woman, murder, I consider it in the case -- abuse beyond anything else. I think we all -- also ought to consider criminal charges against women who use drugs when they're pregnant, but do you have any problems with Barbara's plan? LYNN GOLD BIKIN, ATTORNEY: Look, let me say something to you. I don't have any problems with anybody doing something voluntarily. Certainly, the law should not be behind this. HANNITY: But... BIKIN: But, look -- you know, look, from a legal point of view, I'm going to tell you that I don't think that they can force someone to do what she's doing. From a practical point of view, certainly, we ought to be looking at people who have babies that shouldn't or can't afford to have them. I'm a little bit saddened that we're only looking at the women. COLMES: Well, that's a good point. Barbara, this is Alan. Lynn, this is Alan. Barbara -- I have no question, Barbara, that your heart is... HARRIS: Our program is... COLMES: I'm sorry. Ma'am? HARRIS: ... available -- we pay men as well. We've paid five men to have a vasectomy. COLMES: Five men compared to hundreds of women, but... HARRIS: Yes. Right. COLMES: I don't doubt -- I don't doubt, Barbara, that your heart's in the right place. However, I don't like the message this sends out. You're buying off women basically to trade their fertility for a few measly dollars, and they're giving away their fertility in the process. Doesn't that trouble you? HARRIS: That -- that's only if they get a tubal ligation. That's their choice, and... COLMES: Well, that's what this woman did who had had 13 kids. HARRIS: Right. BIKIN: But here you had this woman... HARRIS: And she's had 13 children. BIKIN: You're not helping her. Yeah, but you're not helping her. You know, if -- if you take some of that money and put it into a drug- treatment program, if you'd start to prevent some of these people from having children, not only the women but the men as well, without thoughts of marriage or without thoughts of education, that, to me, makes more sense than paying this lady to have her tubes tied. COLMES: Barbara, let me ask you another question. I know -- in this -- this woman who had... HARRIS: Well, we do offer -- we offer these... COLMES: Barbara, let me... HARRIS: ... women drug treatment if they want it. COLMES: Good. That's good to know. HARRIS: We also counsel them, so -- that's something that she doesn't know. COLMES: Barbara, let me -- let me get out a question if I can. I know that this woman who had the 13 kids has a fath -- there's a father to those kids. His name is Keith Foster. What about the rights of the male partners of these women who are getting tubal ligations and being paid to stop producing kids? What about the rights of the men? HARRIS: Actually, that's not the man that she's with. That's just the father of some of her children. COLMES: All right. Well, still, do these fathers have rights as well? HARRIS: As far as? COLMES: As far as determining whether or not they -- women get to reproduce, whether -- what happens to them... HARRIS: Well, it's... COLMES: ... whether they take part in these programs if they're in a relationship with these men? HARRIS: It's -- it's a woman's choice, right? Isn't abortion the same way? Do the fathers have a say in whether they get an abortion? COLMES: Lynn, what is your response? BIKIN: In terms of whether the fathers have a say in abortion? I -- I happen to be a pro-choice person, but I certainly believe that a choice of a couple as to whether or not this woman has a tubal ligation ought to be made jointly if they're a couple. HARRIS: Right. And most of them are -- most of the women that come to our program are not a couple. They're -- most of them are single, have 10 babies by 10 different fathers. It's not a normal relationship. BIKIN: But, Barbara, what happens after that? HANNITY: We've got to -- we've got to run, ladies. Lynn, good to see you. Barbara, as always, thank you for your time. I like Alan's idea. The right of the men when women have abortion. You're coming to my side. Welcome to... COLMES: Well, I think that both partners in the relationship have rights. HANNITY: Men -- the father should have a say if a woman wants an abortion. COLMES: And -- yes. It should be pro-choice for both, right? HANNITY: No. COLMES: All right. There's where I lose you. OK. Go ahead. HANNITY: All right. - --- MAP posted-by: Richard Lake