Pubdate: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 Source: The DrugSense Chat Room Website: http://www.drugsense.org/chat/ Note: This, and the series of forums, is being archived at MAP as an exception to our web only source posting policies. The forum presented below is a follow up to last Tuesday's, archived at http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n275/a01.html Ahead: On the NYT Forum: Wed. Feb. 20th at a special time, 1:30 p.m. Member of the European Parliament Chris Davies. And on Thur. Feb. 21st the special 'Evils of Prohibiton Panel.' Please see http://www.cultural-baggage.com/schedule.htm for complete details! TRANSCRIPT: NORA CALLAHAN'S VISIT TO THE DRUGSENSE CHAT ROOM DrugSenseBot001: Nora Callahan -- DrugSense board member -- Executive Director, The November Coalition http://www.november.org/ Paul: hello Nora...what is new with the November Coalition Trippin: Hi Nora ..welcome to the chat... Nora Callahan: New with TNC? We are putting final touches on a petition to ask for increase in 'good time' Good time is now a bit under 15% in the federal prison system We want more! Good time, that is. Call it... harm reduction for the prisoners. Richard Lake: Nora, it has been a long time since we have done this. Remember the chat that night in the basement of the now burned out farmhouse at the Rainbow Farm? Paul: What do you think your chances are of getting it passed? Nora Callahan: Yes, Richard, the last time we did this was in 1998 at the farm Nora Callahan: What are the chances of early release if we do not try? What is success? Nora Callahan: How many were active in drug law reform before 1997? MaxStone: I was Paul: I was Richard Lake: Is the petition on line yet, Nora? MaxStone: in Australia that is Nora Callahan: Will be within 2 weeks JayB: yo, letters Fat Freddy: I was Nora Callahan: okay... back in 1997 how much talk was there about the injustice of imprisonment? MaxStone: in Australia a lot more than USA Paul: Depends how many people had friends or family inside the system Nora Callahan: Australia is a more progressive country... you are fortunate Richard Lake: Nora, there are already more hard core activists here, from three countries now, than were present at the NYT forum. I count 19 including yourself. Fat Freddy: A lot more than in 1994 Nora. Nora Callahan: Well, in early 1997 - not much... and yes, each year, people see the injustice MaxStone: we been protesting against wakenhut since the day they started building their slave labour cages Nora Callahan: but, we don't ask for release Micah: we are coming together here in Canada Nora Callahan: yeah, wakenhut is bad news Nora Callahan: and Canada is coming together! thank you Canada! Paul: because more people are coming to have friends and family inside now than then Nora Callahan: yep... more and more victims breeding their own resistance.... isn't how it often goes? Micah: we all know someone harassed Nora Callahan: correct Micah: or jailed Paul: ya ...I worry that now Canada is talking about privatizing prisons as well derek: Bush wants 25% increase! Nora Callahan: yep - privatization is large concern Nora Callahan: yeah - looks like the president would have a lot of things... Fat Freddy: Sister Somayah went into the hospital Friday with her sickle cell anemia. She may be next -- I hope not. derek: Nora, remember the training film? Nora Callahan: yes, the training film I sent that to NBC and they never sent them back they were going to do a documentary on abuse derek: it's worse now Nora Callahan: abuse? yes, we get letters calls, the system is too 'burdened'... Nora Callahan: it is harder for news and documentary makers to get inside Paul: shoot next wakenhut will be asking for government grant in order to build new prisons Nora Callahan: paul - and could get one... derek: SLU (special housing units) are big now Nora Callahan: one thing though, it gets harder and harder for them to get guards Paul: I know Nora...that is what scares me Nora Callahan: wonder if people see it like a 'janitor job' of the new millennium? Paul: maybe they will just start sending people to Cuba Prison system Richard Lake: And prison industries take business away from outside businesses. I do think that it is important for there to be education and training in prisons, but not slave labor! MaxStone: so Nora how do you think the internet has helped - or hindered- the overall 'protest' movement? Nora Callahan: so many sites these days! derek: StarBucks uses slave labor Nora Callahan: the internet? helped? understatement immeasurable help! look how we can communicate was telling folks about a petition that we will 'launch' soon that asks for increase in federal good time for who have not been in any trouble in prison Nora Callahan: so... now I have a question of all of you... question is: how many signatures of support can we get? say a guy got 10 years should we ask for half time? or go for what there was before mid 80's and that was eligible for release after 1/3 of their time had been served Diane Fornbacher: Will the petition be online, Nora? Nora Callahan: yes online and hardcopy to all our prisoner members Diane Fornbacher: That sounds great Paul: go for 1/3 of the time like before.... Nora Callahan: yeah.. 1/3 Nora Callahan: okay - so you'll all sign Paul: but plan on getting into some hard core discussions Nora Callahan: that is the purpose of the petition Nora Callahan: hard core discussion Paul: there should be statistics on that somewhere Diane Fornbacher: Yay for TNC Nora Callahan: more 'lines drawn in the sand' what stats? on what? stats on what? Diane Fornbacher: I got lots of lines drawn in front of me and behind, etc Richard Lake: I know that Dr. Mikuriya got over a hundred thousand signatures on a petition between '73 and 76, so over time a lot can be gathered. I helped him deliver it to the white house on July 4th, 1976. Should be able to get that many faster now, Nora. Paul: will prove that people in general where better off with serving only 1/3 Nora Callahan: how many Richard? how many could we get? MaxStone: the current number of cyber citizens is less than 10% of global population] Nora Callahan: we got 36,000 jjp ones (jubilee justice) in 2000 - 6 months and not too many folks helped mostly was just TNC - prisoners and their loved ones okay how many of 10 online will sign it? Micah: i JayB: yo Paul: 6.47 million people inside....5 people for every person..... 30 million Fat Freddy: Me easygoer: I will Nora Callahan: 30 million JayB: 2 of 10 Micah: every one that reads it Nora Callahan: Micah - love, love your optimism Nora Callahan: I am optimistic MaxStone: less than 1% of cyber citizens will access it, no matter where it is cached Richard Lake: Petitions take off slowly, I suspect. I would guess a hundred thousand in a year. But as more get out there the rate of signatures grows. The longer 'till the turn in date the more signatures. Paul: that would be your limitation...how many people can you reach Diane Fornbacher: Well, naturally, we'll put it on our email list (DPFTS http://www.dpfts.org ) and it can be forwarded to groups with statement of conscience against the WOD MaxStone: website super saturation Nora Callahan: how do we make this petition well known? I like that Diane statement of conscience Paul: even if everybody online signed it....only 30-40% of people in states is online... with probability high that the people that would sign it are the ones offline Nora Callahan: oh, those stats, of how many are online JayB: can this petition move in synergy with some other coalition element? derek: the DEA hemp protest seemed to come together online MaxStone: web is used to inform and direct the action of the people in the streets Richard Lake: To start with, let me know when it is online and downloadable for printing. Be sure to get a copy available in .pdf format for good printing. Nora Callahan: what if the petition was in the Nation Magazine? okay - so - we get it online MaxStone: it is a communication device Diane Fornbacher: Paul, in that case, perhaps TNC can have a printer-friendly version on the site for demonstrators, college club members, church members, etc... Nora Callahan: and re-activate OpenTheCan www.OpenTheCan.org that is.... Diane Fornbacher: I like the "nation" mag campaign and of course, the Open The Can Campaign - --ingenious... Paul: good idea... Diane Nora Callahan: okay... so it's online, and in magazines Richard Lake: That, of course, would help. The mag, that is. I just don't know if it is the best way to spend money. I trust you are talking to Kevin, Nora. Paul: do a mass mailing Nora Callahan: not yet, I'm talking to you guys!!!! Paul: just a pamphlet to send to every person in the US Nora Callahan: if we are gonna chat... then we are gonna come away with some work done every person in the US okay... bulk mailings to 'liberal' communities Paul: only 300,000,000 people Nora Callahan: live interviews!! Micah: web conferencing etc Nora Callahan: hold that thought Micah Richard Lake: Talk to Kevin about magazine ad feedback. If you can afford it fine, but it costs, for sure. Not sure how effective it is. Nora Callahan: Micah...we must go back to this soon Diane Fornbacher: Well, I dunno if the mag is the best idea either but it'll certainly get some very important people's attention, letting them know we're serious. Sometimes it might not be the best way to get signatures, per se but it might be good to send a message to the mag's more high profile readers. Nora Callahan: and on mag ad we can give feedback as to how many do it how many times are ads run - when there is little way to measure it? this is a measuring stick Fat Freddy: We can't rely on the News papers. Paul: the limits are...presentation and how many people get to see it or hear about it Nora Callahan: but - what if locally, people raised money to put it in their own newspaper? the statement - one signature line - send this to: The November Coalition 795 South Cedar Colville, WA 99114 Richard Lake: We can probably get High Times, Cannabis Culture and Head to do something, but the lead time till the item is huge (three to six months on the average) Nora Callahan: so... mag - that depends on who wants to pay for it, but don't worry about it if it is 'right' we'll get it in a mag Paul: no ...first thing is to figure out who would sign the petition Nora Callahan: so, how many of you have a core group that can raise $150? a local newspaper ad would be $150 Paul: then you will target the mags that those type of people read Nora Callahan: we'd have PDF downloadable camera ready 'ads' for that purpose, perhaps? Diane Fornbacher: Nora, just as important, is trying to get organizations (high profile ones like Amnesty) to endorse it. You got garner a lot of attention with endorsements from other orgs too. kevinblack: DIANNE!!!! Derek!!! If anyone is interested, I spoke with Jacob Sinks sister last night and have an update on him...anyone mention Maxim Magazine? Nora Callahan: high profile orgs to endorse - very good! Nora Callahan: Richard, can we get a printout of this meeting? Fat Freddy: Great Idea Nora. I will be doing a few Ads all over as well. Nora Callahan: Maxium! good! Nora Callahan: organizational endorsements is very important Paul: maybe you would put out another type of add for magazines aimed at the people on the other side... Nora Callahan: well.... Jo-D: Nora...yes transcript will be posted at mapinc by morning Nora Callahan: on the other side? kevinblack: They're starting to get a circulation as large as Playboy and are VERY receptive to our issues Richard Lake: Nora, you can't go back in this chat before you signed in. Kevin, it will be posted to MAPNews, archived. Just search on Nora. With a little luck I hope to have it posted by late tomorrow. Nora, the idea to have some ads, various sizes, in .pdf formats so we can ask magazines, etc. to do PSAs is super! Paul: such as guards and police and justice type people Nora Callahan: hummm.... why not count up those on our side first? Richard - PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENTS tremendous idea! on buses they give free bus and subway spots to non profits Micah: billboards Diane Fornbacher: Playboy has always been receptive (no pun intended) but they were the major funders of HIGH TIMES and NORML when both began... Nora Callahan: that is why Diane's idea to get Amnesty Intl / Human Rights Watch /ACLU / behind it Nora Callahan: Playboy gave me my first press! Diane Fornbacher: oh ok, I was thinking you meant Playboy is getting receptive, not Maxim, but now I get it kevinblack: lol Nora Callahan: my mom proudly proclaimed at the checkout stand - "My daughter is in this magazine" Nora Callahan: lol Diane Fornbacher: AHAHAH Nora Callahan: my mom is 80 too funny Nora Callahan: someone can go pull the few quotes TNC and me are mentioned Diane Fornbacher: You should've seen the issue of Penthouse Paul Armentano was in.... His grandparents almost died when they saw the issue Nora Callahan: okay, back to work Nora Callahan: Micah Micah: yes Diane Fornbacher: lol, ok, sorry boss Nora Nora Callahan: you had a point i wanted to take further derek: Reason and In These Times are good ones too Nora Callahan: what had you asked or commented earlier and I said hold that thought reason mag rolling stone Paul: the trick is to reach those that are quick to sign as cheaply as possible whilst at the same time working on getting those that normally wouldn't sign it or wouldn't even think about signing it to sign it Richard Lake: There may be some magazines like Glamour that would be most receptive, also, Nora. Micah: to speak on the web web conferencing Diane Fornbacher: TIME mag might be good too, didn't they just do an article on hemp? Paul: to teach them Nora Callahan: broad appeal - yes Paul, we have to have broad appeal Nora Callahan: teach, change minds, fence sitters fall our way kevinblack: Suff Mag; Spin Mag; Esquire Mag; Details Mag Nora Callahan: Time, Newsweek has writer that follows us kevinblack: Stuff, even Diane Fornbacher: Nora, another idea might be to go back and try all the mags which have covered TNC and interviewed you. Nora Callahan: as does the guardian in england Paul: because if you can't change the other side to see as you do...you will not have any chance even if you sign up a billion sigs Nora Callahan: international pressure??? Paul: go to forums for guards and justice system Diane Fornbacher: One thing of which you must make sure is to have eloquent speakers of all colors. A lot of functions I've attended tend to neglect that aspect, leaving many feeling ignored and upset Nora Callahan: to who? a few speakers.... forums? okay.... tonight we are talking about a direct action Nora Callahan: Diane Nora Callahan: Richard Nora Callahan: Paul Nora Callahan: Fat Freddy Nora Callahan: who am I leaving out? Paul: yes JayB: yo Nora Callahan: direct action we are tired of talking conferencing kevinblack: amen Nora Callahan: dying in prison being raped we are tired of going insane Trippin: Nora.. we need more politicians on our side Nora Callahan: we need more politicians on our side okay - how do we get them? with people! they follow the public JayB: the public must reach critical mass, else they ignore us. derek: letters in newspapers help Nora Callahan: right jb Diane Fornbacher: There is a great disparity between what politicians do as opposed to what the citizens want. There is a huge gap that we need to bridge. Many people agree with us. Richard Lake: I agree, petitions, Drug Law Vigils http://www.november.org/projects/projectvigiltour.html - A CANpaign for freedom http://www.openthecan.org/ - Direct action!!! Nora Callahan: ah.... but Diane, not when you have enough people people power, or power to the people we are the 4th branch of gov't Paul: we are supposed to be the government JayB: We are the government kevinblack: Has anyone here seen the ad campaigns for Truth.com, the anti-smoking folks? Nora Callahan: okay.... so now what were we saying about getting more politicians on our side? Diane Fornbacher: Right Nora, I agree, just reflecting on the current ignoramus of our "Great Representation of Government." You know I've got the "Hope" bug... JayB: Coercion by force of arms is not the same as the consent of the governed. Paul: sometimes you just have to make your own politicians Nora Callahan: Paul, ain't that the truth derek: people are doing life for cannabis violations! Paul: I am with the Federal Marijuana Party Nora Callahan: The November Coalition - tnc or 'november' Richard Lake: It is very important to write, call, visit, your congresscritters and other elected officials. Be where they are speaking and ask the tough questions. Picket them if they clearly are not listening. I have a stack of mail a couple of feet high from my congresscritter. If I had the $$ I would send a donation to his office every time he voted right. A signal they understand *smile* Diane Fornbacher: "CongressCritters"? Haha, Richard derek: Nora, have you been in contact with Will Foster? Nora Callahan: yeah, will - of course! since inception.... since we had the freewill elist Trippin: Nora.. besides getting more people off the fence and getting more politicians on our side...what do you think we can do about this blind eye that the media has been using to quiet the movement? Diane Fornbacher: Tell me roomies, isn't will the most polite person in the WORLD? Nora Callahan: media Nora Callahan: well, I think the media is getting plenty pissed these days you know - kept in the dark and fed bull s not allowed to cover the war in any historical sense the war on 'terror' derek: Nora, any trouble getting RZ [Razor Wire] inside? Nora Callahan: I think the media is gonna swing our way again huge rz and the inside let me answer that underground in the supermax at Florence, warden Pugh says that we allow communication between prisoners he says our publication is detrimental to the security, good order, or discipline of the institution.... kevinblack: media respond well to both controversial issues and gimmics...have had no problem getting them to vigils Diane Fornbacher: Nora, do you think that the media is starting to "come back to its senses" after all the anti-terrorism stuff? Making connections about the WoD? Fat Freddy: Nora What do you feel that we could do to get us all together more? This Chat is done every Saturday and Sunday night from all over. could we put it out to all of the warriors to get together and talk? Nora Callahan: too many questions at once lol Diane Fornbacher: GREAT IDEA FREDDY! Nora Callahan: with Richard as facilitator I'd chat more if it had effect more direct action that is Richard Lake: From what I have seen the superbowl terrorist ads got more bad press than good by far. A good sign, IMHO. Nora Callahan: okay - back to the Razor Wire and Censorship yeah, but mostly - the wardens do not censor us and the ACLU is going to try to help us raise legal challenge Mark Printz: Wardens can not ban a publication they must review each issue Diane Fornbacher: pedal to the metal, we should get more organized. Put all the heads together regularly for more intense planning. Nora Callahan: mark! Mark Printz: Hi Nora Richard Lake: That is good, Nora. About how many copies do you distribute now. Good on the ACLU also. Nora Callahan: that is a former POWD Diane Fornbacher: There's only the NORML conference this year. Only one BIG opportunity to connect together. Mark Printz: Sorry I am not around but will work on doing more still have 22 months of paper Nora Callahan: Depending on time of year from 15,000 to 25,000 and we are a quarterly Nora Callahan: I miss you, but so glad you are free Mark Printz: I love you thank you Nora Callahan: love you too Mark wow... I see your picture in my head Diane Fornbacher: Can you feel the love? Freedom is possible! Nora Callahan: yeah, but he did all his time too much time Nora Callahan: okay want to tell ya something we have to get early release they are losing hope it's horrible, worse than ever we are just leaving them behind Nora Callahan: tell that to my brother ff he's been down 12 years Paul: ya they give all early releases to the murderers and rapists Nora Callahan: he's got till 2014 at the earliest so, lets get them out Trippin: wow Nora Callahan: early release change a code in the bureau of prison's computers do not have to use the courts Mark Printz: I read everything and talk to people all the time wrote some letters that were published in the papers. did my 5 for growing. It is so wrong that such long sentences are being served I wish I could hack the BOP Nora Callahan: do not have to use prosecutors Fat Freddy: Yes I have a lot of sorrow for those that have been made POWs Nora. Nora Callahan: we got to do it, Mark show them that there is public support for early release Fat Freddy: Lets start getting together here. Nora Callahan: well, okay, but ff - people got to get signatures Nora Callahan: kevinblack: I'll work Seattle Nora Callahan: hope? what is that made of? Diane Fornbacher: PEOPLE! Nora Callahan: a thread for those imprisoned Paul: it will branch out all over the net...that is the easiest part Fat Freddy: If you have something to pass out then this as a great place to come to. Nora Callahan: hope is what makes us human people that are hopeless do not work Diane Fornbacher: Hope's always alive, no? Nora Callahan: in prison - Mark - is there a lot of hope? Mark - tell them about 'hope' in prison Mark Printz: yes people always have hope and want the laws to change right Nora Callahan: they are human the prisoners still have hope Mark Printz: we used to think that this year something would change Nora Callahan: amazing.... yes, we did so, we gotta deliver Mark Printz: always praying and wishing for some type of relief Diane Fornbacher: We'll see them on Friday, Nora. The "Drug War is Cold" demo is on Friday. Nora Callahan: yes, Diane is doing a protest on Friday in Philly any prison for drugs is too much want to hear about what of my 'bad days?" Diane Fornbacher: Outside the federal prison. They'll be able to see us from the slitted windows Paul: keep them up Diane...are they gaining more and more support? Diane Fornbacher: We see them cheer and write thank you on the windows Mark Printz: Reading the news we would get from the activist groups on the outside really helps and we try and will to keep getting by hoping that our brothers inside will get relief Nora Callahan: a mom from Seattle called hysterical. her son had a baggy of pot and she didn't have enough money to bail him from king county jail he was being gang raped there Diane Fornbacher: oh man Nora Callahan: he is dead aids Diane Fornbacher: sigh Nora Callahan: so.... no more bad days Paul: so the system murdered him Nora Callahan: yes, drug laws did hell of a sentence for a baggy of pot Richard Lake: Good national polls tell us 75% now think that the WOD can't be won. The problem is to create a majority which will accept common sense solutions. Nora Callahan: right people know it's failed Trippin: that is so sad...see what the system does.. its despicable Diane Fornbacher: Let them, our American brothers and our sisters, lives not be in vain... Nora Callahan: so, first thing is that we will ask everyone to help get signatures we'll ask Matt to put an online sign on, BUT that can NOT replace getting hard copy signatures? we should be able to start caravans collecting in towns - passing off to the next town Nora Callahan: kevinblack: hitting the streets is the only way to go Nora Callahan: the trailer, carrying signed petitions getting bigger Plexiglas? so all can see? and federal level keep the talk alive, the petition is almost done? Nora Callahan: we have prisoner cd's voice of the prisoner cd (bracelets slow...we keep hoping someday it will 'catch on') we have cd's and in 98 they aired on public radio constantly some anyhow it made it to #14 on micro broadcaster's charts Nora Callahan: posters to promote email me a reminder to - outstanding idea!. JayB: thanks!. they could be the straw to break the camel's back. Nora Callahan: we have the pins too lapel pins thin blouse and they stick the beejeebees outta ya lapels are fine though Nora Callahan: the CD's need to go out to radio again, with our petition website address www.OpenTheCan.org Fat Freddy: Cher and Brian McCulluck will have breakfast with me tomorrow AM Nora I will tell them that you said hi. Nora Callahan: anyhow, anyone wanting to help us 'resurrect' the CD project, we are ready in about 3 weeks to do that Nora Callahan: oh, ff - do tell them hello! Richard Lake: Nora, you should understand that a lot of hard working activists come here just to relax, to b.s. a little, if you will. It is my favorite place to just shoot the breeze a little. So, no, the sessions here will probably never be that action oriented. Still, along with everything else, we do catch up here on a lot of action stuff, who is doing what. And get good ideas we can work on.... Fat Freddy: I sure will Lady, They were here on the 9th. Nora Callahan: well, I think that Canadians should start saying things like: Micah: do we not have Canadian brothers in jail? Nora Callahan: Coming to your backyard: The US Drug War Paul: ya it would more be like starting up a Canadian chapter of the November Coalition Nora, I watch for stuff on the November-L list to pass around. I am on about 60 fairly action oriented email lists now. About 300 emails a day. Maybe 40 or 50 just spam like. Yell at me if you have something hot that needs passing around and I will make it happen in case I miss it. Nora Callahan: yeah Richard, but you do a good job of getting stuff on the l list I appreciate it so Nora Callahan: grandkids here JayB: THANKS Nora. Nora Callahan: thank you JB Jo-D: thanx, so much, for your time/energy Nora! Nora Callahan: and all kaptinemo: thanks for stopping by, Nora! :) derek: thanks for all you do Nora Callahan: we'll let ya all know when the petition is up Micah: night nora Trippin: thanks for the chat..nora Paul: thanks for coming here tonight Nora...hope to see you here often BigBong: see you next time Richard Lake: Thanks for being here, Nora!!! Nora Callahan: I'm counting you all in for the first 30 million... Nora Callahan: love to you! Paul: count me in Nora Callahan: lol, good night all - --- MAP posted-by: Richard Lake