Pubdate: Fri, 27 Mar 2009
Source: CNN (US Web)
Show: CNN Larry King Live
Copyright: 2009 Cable News Network, Inc.
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Note: Relevant part of a longer transcript.
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THE DEBATE OVER LEGALIZING MARIJUANA

Tavis Smiley, Guest Host

SMILEY: The president takes action and has some asking this -- is he 
taking a turn to the right?

Plus, will Obama make history and push to make marijuana use legal?

Not if opponents can help it. Marijuana -- the debate with Montel 
Williams, Stephen Baldwin and others next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Good evening.

I'm Tavis Smiley sitting in for Larry tonight.

SMILEY: President Obama yesterday, speak of the president, also, as 
we all know by now, held an online town hall meeting yesterday. He 
noted the Internet community had a high interest in having him answer 
a question on legalizing marijuana to help the economy. So he addressed it.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When can we expect the jobs that have been 
outsourced to other countries to come back and be made available to 
the unemployed workers here in the United States?

OBAMA: Not all of these jobs are going to come back. And it probably 
wouldn't be good for our economy for a bunch of these jobs to come 
back, because, frankly, there's no --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMILEY: That was during the town hall meeting, Gary, when he talked 
about marijuana question. We didn't get to that in that particular 
clip. I want to ask you about it, because we're going to debate this 
later in the show with Stephen Baldwin and Montel Williams, your 
stance though on whether or not the time is right to have a 
conversation about legalizing?

(CROSS TALK)

SMILEY: I'm going to explain that later. What about the conversation?

SHANDLING: Isn't it a conversation that we don't want to legalize -- 
that the president -- don't legalize marijuana in order to stimulate 
- -- it's not an economy stimulator?

SMILEY: It's not.

SHANDLING: I'll oppose it on the economic level, first, which is, as 
far as I know, it's going to make the economy more sluggish, sit on 
the couch and eat Doritos. It's pretty common sense. I think some of 
this stuff is more common sense. I'm still not hearing answers. I 
watch CNN a lot. I like to watch people talk about all these issues 
that I'm sitting here now talking about, except I'm not pretending to 
have the answers. I can't believe how freely people are willing to --

SMILEY: That's the point you made earlier, though, that we don't know 
what the answer is, and that's OK. As long as we're trying to figure 
out -- SHANDLING: So everyone's trying to jump on this and we're 
trying to make it a story. And I know we're in trouble and I was 
watching that flood, thinking, my god, it's close to biblical 
prophesy. It feels like things are pretty dark, taking a bad turn. 
And I'm thinking, what does it say in the Bible. How far does the 
stock market have to go down before -- before Jesus comes back and 
says, I warned you!

SMILEY: I've got 30 seconds, Arianna. Let me ask -- I've been anxious 
to ask you this question specifically, whether or not a president can 
be over-exposed. President Obama, whether it's Leno, whether it's 
CNN, whether it's "Face the Nation," whether it's this town hall 
meeting online -- can a president be over-exposed?

HUFFINGTON: Tavis, I think this is a non-issue. No, I don't think he 
can be over-exposed. I think he should go on any television show, do 
online chats, give press conference, all that is good. But I do want 
to answer that question about our failed drug war, because it is a 
very important criminal justice question. It's not a question about 
our economy.

And with what's happening in Mexico, with what's happening on our 
border there, this is clearly a moment, as senator Jim Webb said, to 
rethink our failed drug war, which has been a war on minorities. And 
I was hoping that the president would actually dare to take this on, 
because it has become the third rail of American politics.

SMILEY: Let me thank Arianna Huffington, David Frum, and Gary 
Shandling for a spirited conversation tonight about the issues of the week.

Is the debate over medical marijuana almost over or just getting 
started? On this show, just getting started. More on it in a moment 
on LARRY KING LIVE after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Federal agents with guns raided Lynch's business and home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seconds later, Charles heard banging at his front door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said, search warrant! Open up! Search warrant!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deputies carried boxes of evidence out of the 
dispensary around 2:30 this afternoon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Federal authorities seized 30 pounds of marijuana.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMILEY: Marijuana was in the news this week, big-time. And Charlie 
Lynch was in the thick of it. He's emerged as a key figure in the 
national debate over medical marijuana. Charlie was convicted on 
federal charges in connection with his operation of a medical 
marijuana dispensary. His sentencing this week was postponed. Charlie 
Lynch and his attorneys, Reuven Cohen and John Littrell, are with us 
tonight to tell us about what happened, or what didn't happen this 
week, why it was postponed, and what it all means.

Glad to have you gentleman here. Charlie, let me start with you. What 
were you expecting to happen this week that obviously got postponed.

CHARLIE LYNCH, CONVICTED FOR DISPENSING MARIJUANA: I thought I was 
going to be sentenced to jail time, probably in the area of five 
years or more. And when the judge decided he wanted more information 
about the new policy, everybody's really surprised by his decision to 
find out more information about the new policy.

SMILEY: Ruben, from a legal standpoint, what happened this week?

REUVEN COHEN, LYNCH'S ATTORNEY: What happened was that Judge Wu asked 
for the local prosecutors to go back to main justice in D.C. and get 
some sort of clarification on what Attorney General Holder has been 
saying over the course of the past three, four weeks. It's a matter 
of some debate. What we've been hearing from the attorney general is 
that somehow now, in order to be prosecuted under the Holder 
administration -- the Obama administration, you need to have both 
violated federal and state law, which is a sea change, a landmark 
change from what has really been the status quo under the Bush administration.

SMILEY: Of a zero tolerance policy.

COHEN: Of a zero tolerance policy. At our trial, the federal 
government, after millions of dollars, was able to prove that Charlie 
was dispensing marijuana from his marijuana dispensary. He had done 
that in complete compliance with state law. He had the mayor on his 
side. He had the local police department often coming in for coffee, 
the city attorneys.

What the government does in all of these cases, or used to do, and 
now I think won't do anymore, is move to keep people like Charlie and 
lawyers like us from talking about compliance with state law. They 
used to try really hard. And they tried quite hard in our case to 
keep us from bringing that to the forefront, because no jury really 
wants to convict someone like Charlie Lynch for doing what is legal 
here in California.

SMILEY: But what does this mean, though, John, for the conversation 
that we have been having in America for some time now about medical 
marijuana? This change from the Obama administration -- from the Bush 
administration, rather, to the Obama administration, which, again, 
your colleague seems to suggest may change how they prosecute or 
don't prosecute these cases. What does this postponement mean for 
medical marijuana and the conversation about it in this country?

JOHN LITTRELL, LYNCH'S ATTORNEY: Well, we're going to find out, in 
terms of what it means for Charlie Lynch. But I think this is a 
change that everyone has seen coming for a long time. I think that 
politicians are coming to their senses. I think that, with this 
administration, we're going to start to see some practical approaches 
to medical marijuana. I think what that's ultimately going to mean is 
legalizing it, making it available to patients who need it. I think 
that the administration is not going to be interested anymore in 
directing resources to prosecuting people like Charlie Lynch, when we 
have real, harmful drugs and the violence associated with that order.

SMILEY: Charlie, obviously the case got postponed this week. Give me 
your sense now of how you feel about medical marijuana, your role in 
it. Do you feel apologetic? Would you still do it if you could? Give 
me a sense of how you feel?

LYNCH: I kind of feel like the federal government has been waging a 
civil war against the people of the state of California. And I'm 
hoping that the Obama administration is going to end that civil war 
and stop the prosecution, stop the raids, pull our brothers and 
sisters out of prison, and also not send me as a prisoner of this war to jail.

SMILEY: If you end up not having to go to jail, and you, through 
whatever means -- this case, rather, gets kicked out, you ready to go 
back into business again? You look forward to doing that again? Have 
you learned something from this that you don't want to do this anymore?

LYNCH: I felt like I was abiding by the California state laws. And if 
I was able to reopen the dispensary with the blessing of the city, 
like I had before, and I knew the federal government was not going to 
interfere with our constitutional and god-given rights, I would 
definitely seriously consider opening a dispensary again. But I've 
got this other challenge ahead of me, you know, a jail thing still.

SMILEY: That's an understatement. I'm glad to have you on. Charlie, 
Reuven and John, thanks for coming on the program.

I should mention, before we go to break, this program, LARRY KING 
LIVE, reached out to the U.S. Attorney's Office, Mr. Holder, for a 
comment on Mr. Lynch's situation. A spokesperson declined, citing 
Justice Department's policy of not commenting on pending cases.

We've got more here. We'll check back on the situation in Fargo in 60 
seconds. And then, don't forget, Stephen Baldwin and Montel Williams 
go at it about marijuana use. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

SMILEY: The debate over medical marijuana is an emotional one. With 
us tonight, representing the pro-side of this conversation, Montel 
Williams, host of "Montel Across America," debuting April 6th on Air 
America. He has, as many of us know, MS, and has very strong feelings 
about those in pain being allowed to access and use the drug. He 
wrote the book "Living Well Emotionally."

Stephen Baldwin, on the other side, so to speak, is an actor, talk 
radio host, and author. He opposes the legalization of marijuana. 
Montel, Stephen, glad to have you both on the program.

(CROSS TALK)

SMILEY: Montel, let me start with you. Very simply and very directly, why?

MONTEL WILLIAMS, TALK SHOW HOST: You know, I want to make sure that 
we get this characterized exactly right. I have never been a 
proponent of legalizing marijuana. I have been a proponent of making 
sure that a doctor who is trained and a specialist who understands 
how to prescribe medication, if that doctor chooses to prescribe 
medication for his patient, and that patient happens to be me, and he 
can put me on a morphine drip and he also says, I also recommend this 
medication, then he should be able to do so. And the state should 
allow him to prescribe this, and I should be able to get it.

But here's what's so odd about this, we talk about this topic, we 
don't ever talk about it from a place of truth. We always start with 
a lot of rumors and falsehoods. But the truth is, on May 10th of this 
year, the federal government celebrated the 30th anniversary of a 
program, Tavis, that was started under the first Bush administration, 
where the United States government has been dispensing marijuana 
every single month for 30 years to 25 people across the United 
States. Unfortunately, in the last five to six years, it's now down 
to five people because the other people have passed away.

Our government grows it. It certifies it. It puts a USDA stamp on it. 
And every single month, our government sends that medication out to 
five people across the United States. You can check this yourself. As 
a matter of fact, it was called the Compassionate Investigational New 
Drug Program. It started 30 years ago May 10th. Every single month, 
through a program at the University of Mississippi, we the federal 
government and your taxpayer dollars goes to a program to grow 
marijuana and dispense it.

Our country dispenses marijuana to patients who are ill. But, 
unfortunately, that program got cut off to just now five people. I 
ask you this question and I ask this of Stephen: I'm not trying to 
legalize marijuana, I'm just trying to say, here's a government 
that's supposed to do no harm, a government that's supposed to be 
compassionate to all its citizens; what right does this government 
have to say that we're going to give medication to five people and 
let them be pain free, and for all the rest of you, you go to hell, 
we're not going to help you, the program's closed? That's not 
appropriate in America today. SMILEY: I got a break in 30 seconds. I 
don't want to cut you off. I'll come right to you and let you respond 
to the question that Montel Williams poses. We'll take a break. I 
don't want to cut you off. We'll take a break and come back and I'll 
come right to you and let you respond to the question that Montel 
Williams' poses. Montel, thanks or doing my job on LARRY KING LIVE. 
We'll take a break and hear Stephen Baldwin's response in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMILEY: It's the marijuana debate, featuring Montel Williams and 
Stephen Baldwin. We heard Montel's point of view before the break. 
Mr. Baldwin, the floor or the microphone is yours, sir.

STEPHEN BALDWIN, ACTOR: Thank you very much, Tavis. It's great to be 
here. First of all, this isn't even a debate between Montel and I. We 
got crazy love for one another. I have a lot of respect for him as well.

I can't speak for the government, Montel, but I do want to say this: 
it's obvious, America wants its marijuana. This is a fascinating 
topic now. But my question is, how do we control it? Obviously, 
there's a movement that's coming. It's beyond just the legalization 
of it medically, Montel. And that's the problem that I have.

Let me finish -- please, like Jack Cafferty said earlier on this 
network, he's sober 20 years and he doesn't want his kids to do what 
he did, which is what all kids do, drink and smoke a joint. You have 
to understand, alcohol in this country can only profit the government 
in taxation, a maximum annually of 25 billion a year. But the 
negative cause and effect is over 150 billion. How are we going to 
prevent that if this ball starts rolling.

WILLIAMS: Stephen, I will agree with you on all those premises. I've 
got to tell you something, your tax dollars have paid for 30 years 
for the United States government to dispense this drug through 
pharmacies around the country. They're already doing it. It's not 
like we have to invent something new. It's been done and controlled. 
No one's stolen one can in 30 years.

BALDWIN: I don't know about all that.

WILLIAMS: Also, 13 states in this country right now -- the state of 
California has medicinal marijuana centers across the state, where 
they have -- they give them licenses and they license people to do 
it. Here's part of the problem, Tavis, I've got to tell you. All you 
have to do is ask some smart people. And I believe I'm one of them. I 
will go down and show you how we can open up dispensaries, how the 
government can control this and contain it, because, look, I don't 
want it in the hands of my children either. Stephen, you just said it yourself.

Look, if my daughter and your daughter are laying on gurney in a 
hospital right now and they're both ill, they're both hurting. And 
the federal government walks in and says Montel, here, your child can 
take this to feel better, I'm sorry, Stephen, the heck with your 
daughter, you would revolt. America should revolt now.

SMILEY: Montel, it seems to me -- I'm not arguing a point, I'm just 
asking a question. It seems to me that if you take the government out 
of it -- and so many of us believe the government is too involved in 
our lives, in too many respects and aspects in the first place -- why 
control it request when government can just legalize it. Or put it 
another way, why not just decriminalize it?

WILLIAMS: Here's the thing, there are people smarter minds than me 
that know the answer how we continue it even if we make it a 
commercial industry. I'm not against that. If that's what's going to 
help a doctor give me medication, I'm sorry, I've got to beg for 
things that make my life better. The bottom line is, right this 
minute, we have a two-tiered system for 30 years.

It's not like this was yesterday. Ladies and gentlemen, you need to 
listen up and do the research yourself. For 30 years, our government 
sends out marijuana. Is this not an egregious offense, the same 
government that locks up a child or someone with a joint in their 
pocket, is actually a drug dealer. They are dispensing it every single month.

SMILEY: What about that distinction between legalizing and 
decriminalizing? What about the latter?

BALDWIN: I disagree with the latter as well. You're talking to a guy 
20 years sober, Tavis, off of drugs and alcohol. I know the affects 
of marijuana firsthand. I can tell you right now, if this starts to 
become something that is more readily available to our youth, the 
ramifications and repercussions of that in the next 30 years will be 
beyond our comprehension.

SMILEY: Do you buy the argument that marijuana leads to harder stuff?

BALDWIN: That's a fact.

(CROSS TALK)

BALDWIN: Last time I was on the show with Ron Paul, you wouldn't 
believe the e-mails I got, people are going to kill me, shoot me, all 
kinds of stuff. America wants it's marijuana, man, I get it. But I am 
just worried -- I am more concerned for the future and the youth of 
America. And this drug, which is a very dangerous drug -- it's not a 
casual thing. It's very dangerous -- is negatively effecting our youth.

MONTEL: Steve, let me just say, 30 seconds, right now, London, 
Canada, there's a product that's on the marketplace in London right 
now. It's called Sabotex (ph). It's made from marijuana. We have 
outlawed even the research around marijuana in America, unless the 
federal government themselves does it.

Here's the problem, right now, why don't we have an honest discussion 
about this? If we need to take the government out of it, do so. We 
could approach the pharmaceutical industry. There's money being made 
overseas with products that are derivatives of marijuana. What I'm 
trying to say to you, please, don't throw out the baby with the bath 
water. There are some of us who need the medication and we should 
have a right to it.

BALDWIN: Maybe you and I should get together and create some kind of 
conference about this.

WILLIAMS: I am ready. Not only am I ready for a conference, I can 
show you how to do it.

SMILEY: I'll show up and moderate it, how about that.

BALDWIN: Do it.

WILLIAMS: Love it, Tavis. Thank you.

SMILEY: Steven, nice to have you on. Stephen Baldwin. Montel 
Williams, nice to have you on as well.

WILLIAMS: Good to see you, Stephen, my friend.

BALDWIN: God bless.

SMILEY: Larry King back in his chair, as he should be, on Monday 
night. Larry, thanks for letting me sit in tonight. CNN continues 
it's coverage of the drug violence in Mexico. Time now for Anderson 
Cooper, on the border tonight with "AC 360" on the war next door. 
- ---
MAP posted-by: Richard Lake