Pubdate: Mon, 06 Dec 1999
Source: NewsHour with Jim Lehrer
Contact:  http://www.pbs.org/newshour/
Copyright: 1999 MacNeil-Lehrer

MEXICO MURDERS

After this background report, Ray Suarez talks to U.S. Drug Czar Barry
McCaffrey and Mexico's attorney general about the drug war efforts
between their two countries.

JIM LEHRER: Finally tonight, the Mexican graves mystery, and to Ray
Suarez.

RAY SUAREZ: After a week of searching, U.S. and Mexican authorities
have found the remains of six bodies just south of the U.S.-Mexico
border. They've combed four desert ranches looking for as many as 200
people who have been missing. Some may be Americans. The search began
after an FBI informant said the area contained bodies of people killed
by drug lords. The six bodies are all men between the ages of 35 and
50. One had been shot in the head. The sites are between ten and 20
miles south of Ciudad Juarez, which sits on the Rio Grande just across
the border from El Paso, Texas. Last week, President Clinton commented
on the discovery of the graves.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: It's a horrible example, apparently, of excesses of
the drug dealing cartels in Mexico. And I think it reinforces the
imperative of our not only trying to protect our border, but to work
with the Mexican authorities to try to combat these. You know, we had
a lot of success a few years ago in taking down a number of the
Colombian drug cartels. And one of the adverse consequences of that
was a lot of the operations were moved north into Mexico.

The Mexico cartels

RAY SUAREZ: Just a few years ago, Juarez was the headquarters for one
of Mexico's largest and most violent drug cartels. Law enforcement
officials believe the Juarez cartel was responsible for shipping tons
of Colombian cocaine and marijuana from Mexico to the United States.
Its leader, Amado Carillo Fuentes, was Mexico's number one cocaine
trafficker until his death two years ago following botched plastic
surgery. It was suspected Carrillo was trying to change his appearance
to evade police.

600 Mexican soldiers have secured the area as work goes on, unearthing
bones and bits of clothing. An iron and concrete barrier topped with
razor wire keeps reporters and others away from one ranch. Some of the
soldiers wear ski masks to protect their identity from drug lords. A
team of 65 FBI agents and forensic experts based in El Paso are
assisting in the investigation. The remains will be sent to Washington
for DNA testing. The appearance of such a large group of American
officials on Mexican territory has stirred resentment there. On
Thursday, the Mexican Congress voted to prevent President Ernesto
Zedillo from going ahead with a planned visit to Washington. Mexico's
attorney general, Jorge Madrazo and FBI Director Louis 46reeh toured
one of the ranches Friday. Both men denied that FBI participation
infringed on Mexican sovereignty.

LOUIS FREEH: The FBI, when it makes such assistance here, of course,
has no jurisdiction. We are neither carrying out any law enforcement
function or conducting any investigation under our own authority. We
are here simply as partners and invited guests and in this case
technical experts.

RAY SUAREZ: At the site of the search in Northern Mexico, authorities
believe it could take months to unearth all the remains and identify
the victims.

After a background report, Ray Suarez talks to U.S. Drug Czar Barry
McCaffrey and Mexican Attorney General Jorge Madrazo Cuellar about the
drug war between their two countries.

RAY SUAREZ: We're joined now from Mexico city by Mexico's Attorney
General Jorge Madrazo Cuellar, and by General Barry McCaffrey,
director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy. He joins us
from the Eisenhower Executive Office Building in Washington.

Barry McCaffrey, recently a former DEA official has been quoted as
saying Americans knew where the bodies were buried roughly since the
early '90s and didn't go get them because some of the same agencies
they had to work with were some of the people responsible for putting
the bodies there. Your reaction.

BARRY MC CAFFREY: It's hard to imagine that. Look, there's an enormous
threat to Mexico. Violence and corruption. Thank God we've got Louis
Freeh and the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the border
patrol, federal agencies that are equipped and trained to do this kind
of work. Attorney General Madrazo who is now working with our own FBI,
is trying to confront one of the major threats to Mexican national
security. That is going to involve partnership. That's really what
you're seeing in action right now.

RAY SUAREZ: So, Mr. Attorney General, is the size of the American
delegation down there and the kind of assistance that they're giving
to your own drug police a sign that that partnership is working?

JORGE MADRAZO CUELLAR: I think that our relationship is working. It's
actually really very good between the FBI and the PGR - the DEA and
the PGR, the Customs officials and my office -- the attorney general
institution. I think that we have recovered a lot of confidence. We
are doing a very good job. Ciudad Juarez is only one example. During
this year of 1999 we have worked together in four major operations.
Ciudad Juarez is the last one, but we work in the southwest operation,
in the impunity operation. I think that the results are very good.

American authority involvement

RAY SUAREZ: Did you have to spend some time in negotiation before
American officers were able to come over -- setting ground rules for
whether they would be armed, what sort of operations they would take
part in?

JORGE MADRAZO CUELLAR: We have been collecting information and
intelligence along the last weeks in order to discover the precise
points, the spots. I think that that week really was very important
for the success of this operation.

RAY SUAREZ: General McCaffrey, last week the president said that what
you see happening now in Mexico -- cocaine loads growing dramatically,
marijuana interdictions and shipments up and the violence is all part
of a spillover affect from Colombia, that efforts the on cracking down
on drug gangs are starting to put too much heat on them and that
traffic is moving north. What do you think of that suggestion?

BARRY MC CAFFREY: Well, you know, most Americans when they talk about
drugs are referring to cocaine. Clearly more than half of the cocaine
in the world now is produced in Columbia and the rest of it in two
other Latin American nations, Bolivia and Peru. We are a giant engine
sucking drugs through Mexico into the United States. We spend $57
billion a year on it. And that's really the source of the problem. It
generates enormous levels of violence and corruption on both sides of
that border. There's two pieces we're working. One, we've got to
cooperate with Mexico. There's 100 million of them, they're our second
biggest trading partner. And they're also serious about this. The
other piece of the action, though, the most important part of the
national drug strategy is we have to reduce the number of Americans
consuming these drugs. There's four million of us who are chronically
addicted. That's the heart and soul of the problem.

RAY SUAREZ: And Attorney General Madrazo, what do you think about the
President's suggestion that you're seeing a spillover from Colombia?

JORGE MADRAZO CUELLAR: Well, it is not easy to understand what is
going on in Colombia. But let me stress that in Mexico during 1999 we
have established very important records and seizures of marijuana and
cocaine -- the most important in history more than 13,000 Mexicans are
working everyday on a daily basis in order to seal our territory, our
land, our coast and our air space in order to divert the cocaine
shipments. We don't like cocaine in Mexico, so we are working very
hard with the army and with the navy and of course cooperating very
much with our U.S. partners.

RAY SUAREZ: Mr. Attorney General, General McCaffrey's remarks would
reflect that he realizes that there's an American component to this
problem, that it's America's hunger for the drug that is giving you
the transshipment point status. Do you think that Mexicans ,in the
streets of your cities, those reading your newspapers in the morning,
understand that at our highest levels maybe that's part of policy, but
that Americans in the street don't realize our drug problem affects
your country?

JORGE MADRAZO CUELLAR: I think that we have an important understanding
of what is happening with drug trafficking. I think that most Mexicans
understand that we have to fight against consumption but also against
production and distribution of drugs. So this is an integral
phenomenon. And we have to fight against all pieces of this phenomenon.

Growing drug problems in Mexico?

RAY SUAREZ: In many countries in the past that have become
transshipment points, like Mexico, a domestic drug problem has grown
up where there sometimes wasn't one before. Are you seeing that in
Mexico?

JORGE MADRAZO CUELLAR: Yes, I think that we are suffering that problem
in Mexico, and the cocaine problem is increasing not at the level of
the states but we have some problems in major cities in the south
border and also in the north border on consumption of cocaine. So we
have to tackle very quick that problem.

RAY SUAREZ: Barry McCaffrey, in the most recent round of
certification, Mexico was certified as an operating partner of the
United States in the war on drugs, but during those same hearings that
resulted in the certification, chief of operations of the DEA said
there was still a lot of information, sensitive information, that he
felt very uncomfortable sharing with his Mexican counterparts. What do
you do about that? Has it improved?

BARRY MC CAFFREY: Well, I mean we've gone from literally no
cooperation probably in the 1980s after this terrible situation in
Mexico with the murder of Pomerana, and the subsequent abduction of a
Mexican citizen. Today the reality of it is the coast Guard, the U.S.
Coast Guard and the Mexican navy, do cooperate against drugs. There is
a massive training cooperation going on. We do share intelligence.
There's no question, as President Zedillo and Attorney General Madrazo
will note, that there's a huge problem threatening Mexican democratic
institutions. In my view, in our view, we're going to have to work as
partners with Mexico respectfully and patiently in the coming 20 years
to do something about it.

RAY SUAREZ: Will they south of the border have instituted a new police
force to take the place of some old structures? Can you tell the
attorney general tonight that you have greater confidence that your
DEA chief of office remarks weren't necessarily reflective of the
whole administration?

BARRY MC CAFFREY: We don't listen to what people say. We watch what
they do. What you're seeing happening right now on the ground in
Mexico is Louis Freeh, thank God for the FBI, is cooperating fully
with Mexican law enforcement authorities. We have no option. We're
going to protect the two nations. We have to work patiently as
partners against this enormous threat to both nations.

Corruption in the police

RAY SUAREZ: And Attorney General Madrazo, do you something closer to a
handle on the corruption that's been plaguing your police forces in
recent years?

JORGE MADRAZO CUELLAR: Yes, we are working very hard on cleaning the
house. We have to provide results to our society and we have to
dismiss all people who have misconducts or are committing crimes in
the police forces.

Let me say that during the last two years, we have put 2,000 police
officers out of the corporation. We have prosecuted criminal charges
against 354 people. I think that we have to clean the house, to clean
the police force and to provide results. I think we are succeeding
step by step.

RAY SUAREZ: In your own press, Mr. Attorney General, you've been
accused of compromising your country's sovereignty by allowing United
States law enforcement officials to work on your soil. Our two
countries have had a sometimes difficult history. How do you respond
to your critics in Mexico?

JORGE MADRAZO CUELLAR: I think that opinion is part of democracy so I
have to respect the pluralism of opinions, but I must say that we have
been working under the frame of the treaty that we have celebrated
with the United States, the bilateral instrument. So every operation
is in accordance with law. Let me say that the FBI operation, the
assistant that would have requested the FBI, is only with the experts.
No police of the FBI is working or Mexico, only experts, medical
forensics and anthropologists.

RAY SUAREZ: And finally, Barry McCaffrey, with the seizures up, do we
also have to assume that there are loads getting through along with
these huge loads of cocaine and marijuana that are being found?

BARRY MC CAFFREY: Oh, there's no question. Look, Ray, we probably use
11 metric tons of heroin a year in the United States. We seize maybe a
ton or two at best. We seize about 100 metric tons of cocaine - we
meaning the world law enforcement authorities. It's almost impossible
to end drug addiction in America by working on the interdiction piece.
What you have to do is work in cooperation with the international
authorities. There is a Vienna Convention to which we're all
signatories. You have got to try and confront these international
criminals wherever they are. We're doing that, not just on FBI-Mexican
police, but we're talking precursor chemical controls, money
laundering, asset seizure, extraditions. Both nations, Mexico and the
U.S., are extraditing criminals to the other country. That's the first
time in our history that's happened.

RAY SUAREZ: Barry McCaffrey, Attorney General Madrazo, good to talk to
you both.

JORGE MADRAZO CUELLAR: Thank you very much.

BARRY MC CAFFREY: Good to be here.
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